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STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

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Old 04-13-2010, 12:25 PM   #101
sippin_criss
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Re: moving up

play some 10s see how you do, if you crush and you find them easy then you're off to the races, if not you have plenty for 5s.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:32 PM   #102
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Thumbs up Re: moving up

With an ROI of under 7% over 300 games, I think it's better to stay at the $5.50s for another 200 games and see how you do. Even if you are capable of beating the $11s, with a fairly low ROI there's a good chance that variance will kick you in the nuts.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:36 PM   #103
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sngpt vs sngwiz vs sngegt

hi im sure this has been asked before but i couldnt find a thread...
Im planning to buy either one of these (sngpt sngegt sngwiz) whats the best and why.. do any of these provide realtime help while playing ??

Last edited by lolmahaha; 04-13-2010 at 11:51 PM. Reason: thx for the move AMT!
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:36 AM   #104
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

everyone here recommends sngwiz, no experience myself, ive only used sngegt. none of them are allowed to be running whilst playing so no advantage realtime, but they improve your game as you review your sessions and improve that way.
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Old 04-14-2010, 02:47 AM   #105
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by Vishus90 View Post
none of them are allowed to be running whilst playing so no advantage realtime.
when u say allowed to be running u mean by the pokersites right..
because im sure other than stars and tilt networks like ongame ipoker maybe even party dont care.
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Old 04-14-2010, 06:15 AM   #106
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

yes im referring to the pokersites.

so you cant run them simultaneously with each other basically. in regards to sites, its best to check out their list of banned/safe 3rd party software. i know that full tilt and pokerstars ban all these "types" of programs.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:28 AM   #107
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by lolmahaha View Post
when u say allowed to be running u mean by the pokersites right..
because im sure other than stars and tilt networks like ongame ipoker maybe even party dont care.
It is against every sites TOS to use ICM Tools while playing and on most sites even while you are just running their client. For example SNGWiz closes itself when it detects that Stars or FTP are running. For good reason.
Last month someone in the Zoo (forum 'Internet Poker') got banned by FTP because he used SNGEGT while the FTP client was running. They reduced it to a warning a week later, but you get my point.

Any ICM Real-Time Help is against the TOS of every site.

And fwiw, get SNGWiz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishus90 View Post
yes im referring to the pokersites.

so you cant run them simultaneously with each other basically. in regards to sites, its best to check out their list of banned/safe 3rd party software. i know that full tilt and pokerstars ban all these "types" of programs.
err, why should that be? You can run SNGEGT, SNGPT and SNGWiz at the same time. Unless i've misunderstood your statement.
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:36 AM   #108
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6 Max SNG, BR questions and general advice

Hi =), I've recently started playing $13 6 max sng's again, I deposited $460 to Stars on the 12th and I'm up to $660.

My BR question is this, for $660 should I still carry on playing $13 sng's or try my hand on a few $25's at Stars, whats the general rule of thumb when it comes to 6 max sng's? Is 5% of my bankroll decent since i multitable 2 to 4 at a time.

My next questin is about variance, I've only played a relatively small amount of games for me to draw any conclusion upon, how ever here are my stats so far...

ITM: 50%
Games played: 32
Avg profit: 6.35

I'm either on a serious upswing and im awaiting the doom switch, or im playing pretty good, but what I would like to know is after how many games should i be making any conclusions on whether I'm a winning player, or a losing one.

Also a little note on my playing style FWIW, I'm extremely tight (atleast for a 6 handed game) when blinds are low, I find that there are a lot of donks that will push with anything early in the game, and if I grab a really good premium hand I obviously call. Mid stages I start to loosen up, I will steal blinds from the button or UTG, depends on how tight the table is, and if I'm the large stack, I'll really tighten up then especially if there is only 3 people left, last thing i want to do is double up an opponent... if im the short stack I will push with mediocre hands, any ace would do, any pocket pair would do... since blinds are already around 50/100 by that time so I'll just be bleeding chips.
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:54 AM   #109
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Re: 6 Max SNG, BR questions and general advice

Regarding Bankroll:

Not sure if 6max is much different variance wise compared to 9 max, but for $25 tournies in 9 max that bankroll is about 1/3 what you should want.

Build up to 1200 or more, and if you are still crushing it, consider trying moving up, but be ready to drop down quickly to preserve your bankroll.
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:49 PM   #110
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Is there any easy way to import tournament summaries for 6max sngs in pokertracker 3?

Still using PT2 and Pahud for that reason. But they stopped the support for these.
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:57 PM   #111
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Yeah, on the pokerstars lobby (the place your at when you first login), then press CTRL + I, a new window will pop up and at the bottom of that pop up window there will be an options button, click that, and save hand histories to your hard drive, you can then use PT3 to use the hand histories located inside that folder.
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:18 PM   #112
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkoLoco View Post
Yeah, on the pokerstars lobby (the place your at when you first login), then press CTRL + I, a new window will pop up and at the bottom of that pop up window there will be an options button, click that, and save hand histories to your hard drive, you can then use PT3 to use the hand histories located inside that folder.
There is/ was not a problem importing tournaments in general. The problem is importing the summaries of the tournaments, that you get your roi, the finishing positions...
Therefore PT2 had the option to import this stuff from tournament summary-emails you can request from pokerstars.
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Old 04-14-2010, 02:33 PM   #113
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Re: 6 Max SNG, BR questions and general advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkoLoco View Post
Hi =), I've recently started playing $13 6 max sng's again, I deposited $460 to Stars on the 12th and I'm up to $660.

My BR question is this, for $660 should I still carry on playing $13 sng's or try my hand on a few $25's at Stars, whats the general rule of thumb when it comes to 6 max sng's? Is 5% of my bankroll decent since i multitable 2 to 4 at a time.

My next questin is about variance, I've only played a relatively small amount of games for me to draw any conclusion upon, how ever here are my stats so far...

ITM: 50%
Games played: 32
Avg profit: 6.35

I'm either on a serious upswing and im awaiting the doom switch, or im playing pretty good, but what I would like to know is after how many games should i be making any conclusions on whether I'm a winning player, or a losing one.

Also a little note on my playing style FWIW, I'm extremely tight (atleast for a 6 handed game) when blinds are low, I find that there are a lot of donks that will push with anything early in the game, and if I grab a really good premium hand I obviously call. Mid stages I start to loosen up, I will steal blinds from the button or UTG, depends on how tight the table is, and if I'm the large stack, I'll really tighten up then especially if there is only 3 people left, last thing i want to do is double up an opponent... if im the short stack I will push with mediocre hands, any ace would do, any pocket pair would do... since blinds are already around 50/100 by that time so I'll just be bleeding chips.
#1: How much of a bankroll you need to play 6 max games depends on what type of player you are. If this were your primary income at least 100 buy ins, if you are a recreational player probably 50 buy ins, and if you just have lots of money wanting to be deposited soon and aren't scared to do so then obviously you can move up even quicker.

# 2: Your on an upswing. You will not be able to maintain this ROI over a sufficient sample. Take a look at the $13 6 max normal speed Sharkscope top 20 list (normals generally have a better ROI than turbos) and you'll see 30% is being done by one player and 20-25% by a handful and 10-15% by much more.

I think it's more than okay to take shots at higher buy in levels with good table selection. I'd google jhub3000's posts about table selection as it relates to 6 max games. Very important topic, and something many of these low stake regs do not understand or idiotically they are too arrogant to care.
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:18 PM   #114
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Re: moving up

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheeprustler View Post
Im about halfway through Colin Moshman's sng book and am stuck on one equation. I understand page 118-1120 where he talks about how we calculate our equity in the late stages of a sng. I am lost as to how to put this calculation to work when talking about pots.
On page 120 he talks about the equity of calling.
He says.
Equity of calling= (pr(you win the hand))(Equity after you win)
+(Pr(you lose the hand)(Equity after you lose)

So let's imagine the blinds are 100/200. I am in the BB with 78 with 2000 chips after posting. The sb limps and has 400 behind. I think this is a snap push by me anyway but I'm using these figures to keep the maths as straight forward as possible. I decide to peel off a flop And the flop comes 56A offsuit. The sb pushes and I have open ender. Lets assume I know he has an ace so I am two to win if I make the call.
I am at a loss as to how to enter these figures into the equation.
Is the equity after I lose decided in this case by dividing my total tournamnet equity by five? It costs me 400 to call and this is one fifth of my stack. So that's the equity I lose?
Do I express the pot as a percentage of my stack to figure out the equity I gain?
I think if someone could fill in the equation with numbers I've given that would send me on a long way to understanding.
Thanks for your time.
I'll show you how to do this in chips but of course in an STT you must figure this with dollar equities.

The pot before he shoves is 400.
His remaining stack is 400.
You have 2K remaining.

Times you win you have 2800 chips (your stack + pot + his remaining chips).
Times you lose you have 1.6K chips (your stack - his remaining chips).

Let's say you are precisely 2/1 to win. So you have 33% equity in the hand (to figure this out, add one to your odds against and divide this into 100).

Your equity then is .33 x 2800 + .66 x 1600 = ~2000


which is (chance you win x outcome when you win) + (chance you lose x outcome when you lose).

So it's breakeven in chips, but will be -EV in dollars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gato_Vago View Post
Hello.

I play the $1.20 STT at Stars, in sets of 5 stacked tables. I am sort of breaking even after a small sample, but I know I have the following leaks, at least I think these are the main flaws in my game:
No offence, but you probably have a lot bigger flaws than you think. That's one of the first lessons in poker: most of us are much worse than we think we are.

Begin by playing four tables tiled so you can watch the action. You'll improve more for it. There's no reason to stack five at all.

Quote:
1. I seldom play AK in early stages because when I used to play them with a normal 3x raise and I got two or three callers and the flop didn’t help then I was reluctant to make a continuation bet. I know this shows weakness, so I prefer folding than play the hand fishy –although folding might be fishy too- . If I am late and it comes folded to me I might raise the AK thu, but I kinda get lost postflop.
You must play AK preflop early. If you get two callers on a bad flop or three on just about any flop that you miss, just give up. No one is observing your play btw, so it doesn't matter how "fishy" you look.

Quote:
Also, I don’t feel comfortable just limping AK -in fact I don't limp too much, I am a 8.9/7.4/3.56 (nit??)- with such a powerful hand, so I normally fold it in early stages. Is this awfully wrong?
Don't limp AK.

Start raising AK again. Post examples of hands where you felt lost after the flop.

Your stats are appropriately nitty, but I'd expect to see something like 8/5. You are probably raising small pairs a bit too often.

Quote:
2. Whenever I play pairs like KK, QQ, JJ, TT, raising 3x from whatever position and get more than one caller and an ace flops, it’s very hard for me to make the c-bet.
On the whole this isn't unreasonable.

Quote:
So I tend to just check. I know this flaw is very exploitable
Dude, nothing is exploitable unless someone can exploit it.

Quote:
but the reason of my attitude is that I think that many players like to see the flop with any ace and I hate to see my Kings, Queens or Jacks losing against an A2. So, instead sometimes I tend to open over betting those pairs, mainly when I open from early to middle position, which might be not completely correct because an overbet might be a signal of a weak player and/or a not so strong hand.
You won't lose much if you checkfold underpairs to an ace on an A high board against three callers. When out of position, checking and seeing what happens is fine.

Make sure though that if you feel you get called a lot by Ax, you raise AK! Do you see? Those same guys will hand you their stacks on A high boards. But they can't do that if you've folded AK preflop

Again, post examples of hands where you had this happen.

Quote:
As you can see in these very common situations I have no confidence in my postflop game at the early stages of the tourneys, which I guess is very common in new players like me, is it?
There is a lot to learn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKpoker1 View Post
Hey all should I move up to $10+1's (full tilt) if I have grinded $200 up to around $500? I just started grinding some 10+1's and the play is real nitty and I'm wondering if i should just stick to $5.50's and play more tables (play 6 now at a time) bc I feel like they are much easier to beat and no worrys with my bankroll.
I'd get a bigger bankroll first. You can fairly easily have a 20BI downswing, especially if you're a bit marginal, and that's going to wipe out nearly all of your gains.

Don't add more tables either. Focus on getting better and look to increase tables once you can beat the 11s comfortably.
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Old 04-14-2010, 06:52 PM   #115
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Advice: Moving up levels in SNGs

Fellow Sng'rs

Lately experiencing some variance. I'm usually at the low limit games. I have over 1000 games at the 12$ Sng 6max turbo's and doing alright there roi 11%. Trying to move up limits but at the 24$ games I seem to B/E. I don't know why, I still pick out the bad players and yet I seem to always get out drawn(it's almost like at this level there's a lot more variance- I'm losing to guys who are down 3000games -12000$ in losses.. so strange). but at 400 games and 44$ in profit I doubt that it's luck because I do much better at the 12$ games. I usually play a TAG game. It's little frustrating.

I have sng whiz, I think i have an overall decent understanding of push/shove situations.

What could I be missing?

Appreciate some help
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:09 PM   #116
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Re: Advice: Moving up levels in SNGs

1000 game sample is nothing, 400 games is less than nothing. Play 5k games and then you'll have a decent picture of what your true ROI is.

Post hands you have questions on and people can help you out. Even if those sample sizes you gave were significant, people cant just look at them and tell you what issues you need to work on.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:12 PM   #117
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by jurrasstoil View Post
It is against every sites TOS to use ICM Tools while playing and on most sites even while you are just running their client. For example SNGWiz closes itself when it detects that Stars or FTP are running. For good reason.
Last month someone in the Zoo (forum 'Internet Poker') got banned by FTP because he used SNGEGT while the FTP client was running. They reduced it to a warning a week later, but you get my point.

Any ICM Real-Time Help is against the TOS of every site.

And fwiw, get SNGWiz.

err, why should that be? You can run SNGEGT, SNGPT and SNGWiz at the same time. Unless i've misunderstood your statement.
yea, sorry about that, my post wasnt very clear, but was referring to running the icm software (sngwiz, sngegt, sngpt, etc..) at the same time as the poker site (eg, pokerstars, full tilt, etc...)
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:21 PM   #118
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Re: Advice: Moving up levels in SNGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusemandingo View Post
1000 game sample is nothing, 400 games is less than nothing. Play 5k games and then you'll have a decent picture of what your true ROI is.

Post hands you have questions on and people can help you out. Even if those sample sizes you gave were significant, people cant just look at them and tell you what issues you need to work on.
I get that 400 hands is not a big enough sample size however it should give you a general consensus as to where you're headed. I'll be up 600 then get drive back down to 0. I've compared some results with some of the good players, the graph should be best fit line bottom left to top right.

I feel that no matter how much I win, it'll get eventually drive back down to 0. Just thought someone mite have insight in that or it's just how variance is.
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:18 AM   #119
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Re: Advice: Moving up levels in SNGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisdmenace View Post
I get that 400 games is not a big enough sample size however it should give you a general consensus as to where you're headed.
No it shouldn't. Most winning players will have 400+ breakeven stretches, Look back over your graph after several thousand games or sharkscope someone decent at your level with volume.
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:58 AM   #120
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

looking at the leaks in tourney reports in hem, useful or not for assessing where/how I'm losing chips?
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:08 AM   #121
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

oh thanks!
Just gonna grind out a couple more games then =)
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:31 PM   #122
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by InNOut View Post
looking at the leaks in tourney reports in hem, useful or not for assessing where/how I'm losing chips?
There are much better places to look for leaks than hem reports. I'd say they are a last resort. They are much more applicable to cash game play. They'll only tell you the symptoms rather than the root causes. You'll also need mammoth samples before they are going to have any statistical relevance.

The best way to look for leaks is generally in sng wiz, and then pull out hands you are not sure about and post them here.

Another great way to find leaks is to make a video and post it in the Official STTF Video Thread, and hopefully you'll get some kind good regs disect your vid for you. Vers did this for me a few years back and it really helped.
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Old 04-15-2010, 02:51 PM   #123
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Thanks a bunch, njd77. I'll look into those. I should start the sngwiz trial prob. is it difficult to use?
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Old 04-15-2010, 03:16 PM   #124
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Welcome to the forum, posting rules still apply(don't post results) & you can leave out the F, T, and R when it's unnecessary. Please read the OP(original post) & read the FAQ at the top of the forum.

You have SNGWiz on Chip Equity mode, change that.
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Old 04-15-2010, 03:36 PM   #125
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Hi, i've been browsing the 'results' threads to see who's making what. Alot of people have stats like ' won $800, and $200 in bonuses and fpp's and stellar rewards'

i'm currently playing $3's on PS and wondering in order to qualify for fpp bonuses and stellar rewards etc do I have to sign up to anything or click anything or do anything, or how are these redeemable. thanks.
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