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STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

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Old 06-13-2010, 09:42 PM   #301
BusWanker
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Would also like to ask about sample sizes.. What is considered a significant sample size to assume you are beating any given level?

e.g. I have just over 1k games at $5 6 max, with an ROI of 13% according to Sharkscope. Does this mean I am "beating" $5 6-max, or could it easily be a heater?
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:57 PM   #302
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

In a short word I would say yes. I believe(could be wrong) that 6max games have less variance than 9mans if you're good. Just keep in mind that it is entirely possible to go on swings of 1k games or more. Spacegravy went on a 6k game break even stretch(although he was playing at the highest limits so this is a special case) so it's entirely possible that you could be on a 1k heater. However, I think it is more likely that you are just beating the games. Once you start running bad, and you will, the best thing you can do for yourself is to just post hands and keep evaluating your play to make sure that you aren't doing anything wrong.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:33 AM   #303
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Can someone please link me some decent reading with all there is to know about push/fold poker? (ICM, ranges, ect.)
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:37 AM   #304
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by lealz View Post
Can someone please link me some decent reading with all there is to know about push/fold poker? (ICM, ranges, ect.)
http://cvsng.blogspot.com/2007/11/partial-sng-book.html

not ALL there is to know, but a really good start.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:58 AM   #305
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by lealz View Post
Can someone please link me some decent reading with all there is to know about push/fold poker? (ICM, ranges, ect.)
wiz
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:04 AM   #306
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

I'm just going to post this here. Sorry if it doesn't belong here. I haven't really frequented the STT forum in quite sometime so I'm not used to the workings around here.

I want to start mass tabling SNGs either on PS or FTP. I'm going to start off with the $1 SNGs.

My question is, which site should I really try to put in some major volume on?

Rake is the same.

PS has 10 minute levels, FTP has 6 minute levels.

PS has the Steller Rewards program, Planets, plus all of their VPP and whatever else, FTP has the Ironman and Happy Hour and I think that is all.

Not that this matters, but I've been doing the FTP Academy SNG challenge where you play 1 turbo, 1 nonturbo, and 1 sat. I currently have 1 FTPA Rd 2 and 1 FTPA Rd 1 tickets, which I'm not even sure I'll be able to use. And I have T$1 from winning a satellite.

The problem is that playing 3 tables at a time causes me to focus too much on the results and I end up getting irritated (angry) at how bad I lose. I just watched WizardofOdd5 SNG videos on mass tabling $10 PS SNGs and it inspired me to up the tables a lot more so that I'm not always focused on the outcomes.

I don't have rakeback on either site. And if it matters I have $274 on PS and $80 on FTP. (I'm a noob)

So, which site really offers the best incentives for me? Thanks.

Also, low sample size, playing 10 $1 SNGs including turbo/nonturbo on FTP, I have a 25.22% ROI according to PT3. The thing I like about FTP is that it auto-imports the tourney summaries, whereas I don't think PS does that..??
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:21 AM   #307
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

if you don't have rakeback ps>>>>>ftp if you plan on playing a ton
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:02 PM   #308
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

QFbeing 2nd to last post on last page

Quote:
Originally Posted by E5150 View Post
Was this a correct call? I had no real reads on villain and no reason to think he was out of line and not to have the typically strong hand expected from that position, but figured with my chipstack (I would be down to 160 chips after the blinds), I had a showdownable hand, needed to double up, and called.

Hand #1
Full Tilt Poker $100K SuperTurbo Step Freeroll No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t160 M = 2.13
SB: t2010 M = 26.80
Hero (BB): t235 M = 3.13
UTG: t340 M = 4.53
UTG+1: t135 M = 1.80
MP: t810 M = 10.80
CO: t690 M = 9.20

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is BB with 9 9
UTG raises to t340 all in, 5 folds, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls t185 all in





Also, this was the first hand of this tournament, and I figured this was a fold for 2 reasons, (1) hand strength: I could be up against a stronger hand, and (2) I could be up against multiple hands depending on the table, and I think that happens often enough to make this a fold. Any comments appreciated.

Hand #2
Full Tilt Poker $100K SuperTurbo Step Freeroll No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: t300 M = 6.67
BB: t300 M = 6.67
Hero (UTG): t300 M = 6.67
UTG+1: t300 M = 6.67
MP1: t300 M = 6.67
MP2: t300 M = 6.67
CO: t300 M = 6.67
BTN: t300 M = 6.67

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is UTG with A T
Hero folds

Last edited by E5150; 06-15-2010 at 09:04 PM. Reason: we all get to use this excuse once, right? :p
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:18 PM   #309
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

A maths question.

I see a lot of poker formula with (1-x) included. Why is this?
There is a formula in Moshman's SNG book in high blind strategy. I'd like to understand the reasoning behind it. He uses it to find how low a percentage you need a hand to be called for a push to be profitable.
How does this formula prove his point?
(1-x)(t150) + (x) [(.36)(t350) - (.64)(t300)] less than or equal to zero therefore
150 - 213.4x is greater than or equal to zero therefore
x is greater than or equal to .72
If someone could break it down for me I'd greatly appreciate it.
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:54 PM   #310
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Is pokerstars 1$ SnGs (STT or MTT) bad to play?
I vaguely remember someone say the rake in those games is really high, and its much more profitable to just play 3$ games. is this true? or is it not that different, maybe what I heard applies to cash games...
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:33 PM   #311
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

how much are the guys that are killing the 30-100$ sngs on ftp making, what roi per level?
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:36 AM   #312
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheeprustler View Post
A maths question.

I see a lot of poker formula with (1-x) included. Why is this?
There is a formula in Moshman's SNG book in high blind strategy. I'd like to understand the reasoning behind it. He uses it to find how low a percentage you need a hand to be called for a push to be profitable.
How does this formula prove his point?
(1-x)(t150) + (x) [(.36)(t350) - (.64)(t300)] less than or equal to zero therefore
150 - 213.4x is greater than or equal to zero therefore
x is greater than or equal to .72
If someone could break it down for me I'd greatly appreciate it.
x is a chance of one event happening (winning a hand for example) and thus (1-x) is the chance of other events happening (loosing a hand for example).

Take a look at pkt ones 1k post hes doing some ICM calcs migth be interresting for you



Quote:
Originally Posted by donnyz89 View Post
Is pokerstars 1$ SnGs (STT or MTT) bad to play?
I vaguely remember someone say the rake in those games is really high, and its much more profitable to just play 3$ games. is this true? or is it not that different, maybe what I heard applies to cash games...
Yes the 1$ sngs are usually bad cause they have 20% rake on ps for example where as 3$ just have 13.3%. And the level of play is almost the same. However you need to consider bankroll aswell while choosing the game you want to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fees View Post
how much are the guys that are killing the 30-100$ sngs on ftp making, what roi per level?
sharkscope is going to be your friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BusWanker View Post
Would also like to ask about sample sizes.. What is considered a significant sample size to assume you are beating any given level?

e.g. I have just over 1k games at $5 6 max, with an ROI of 13% according to Sharkscope. Does this mean I am "beating" $5 6-max, or could it easily be a heater?
Well it means you are very likely to beat those games. Your true roi can still be way higher and or way lower than your actual. Take a look at the variance section in the FAQ there are a few links to pretty good material where its way better explained than I could ever do.
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:14 AM   #313
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

I have around 300 bucks to deposit either on FT or PS..I have rakeback on Full tilt but my first deposit bonus expired while ago,while I'm still eligible for first deposit bonus on PS.

Should i go with FT or Poker Stars?
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:50 PM   #314
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Re: Holdem manager vs. pokertracker vs. sharkscope hud?

i play on sportsbook and they have a 60 cent turb sit n go. 10 players. What would be a proper strategy for this type of game?

Am I right to think that since it is turbo a ABC strategy would not be correct in this situation?
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:57 PM   #315
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strahinjak View Post
I have around 300 bucks to deposit either on FT or PS..I have rakeback on Full tilt but my first deposit bonus expired while ago,while I'm still eligible for first deposit bonus on PS.

Should i go with FT or Poker Stars?
build roll on FT. Then go to stars if you beat $50+ sngs and can play 15+ at a time. Stars has its value if you play really high volume. At FT you get your 27% RB, even if you play on $1 level.
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:58 AM   #316
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by siebenacht View Post
build roll on FT. Then go to stars if you beat $50+ sngs and can play 15+ at a time. Stars has its value if you play really high volume. At FT you get your 27% RB, even if you play on $1 level.
Thank you
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:01 PM   #317
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Re: Holdem manager vs. pokertracker vs. sharkscope hud?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oomalikoo View Post
i play on sportsbook and they have a 60 cent turb sit n go. 10 players. What would be a proper strategy for this type of game?

Am I right to think that since it is turbo a ABC strategy would not be correct in this situation?
basically fold to the bubble than start jamming wide..
could just open shuv QQ+ AK and play 22-jj for sets as an early-mid game strategy.
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:02 PM   #318
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Re: Holdem manager vs. pokertracker vs. sharkscope hud?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jogden139 View Post
basically fold to the bubble than start jamming wide..
could just open shuv QQ+ AK and play 22-jj for sets as an early-mid game strategy.
so fold till theres 4 people?
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:07 AM   #319
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

I've started grinding the single table super turbo's on FTP to build a roll, but I was wondering what you guys would recommend in terms of buy-ins (probably much more than 100x).
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:09 AM   #320
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

much more than 100
200-300
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:38 AM   #321
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

depends on the stakes you are playing and your true roi (or what you believe your true roi to be).

100 is alright imo.
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:01 PM   #322
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

I've been playing the $1's, but they're very soft so I thought it wouldn't hurt to move up to $2's with just a $224 bankroll. I do have a 26% ROI in the $1's but over a rather small sample size of 105. Obviously the buy-in requirements should be increased as I move up in stakes, just don't know how much to adjust it by.
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:15 PM   #323
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

how big of a downswing should you expect / accept in the 2.25 levels? Is a 35 buy in "downswing" over 130 games a bit to severe to blame it on bad luck?
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:49 PM   #324
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

I've been playing a lot of turbo DONs lately, and it seems like the main portion of my decisions are based around the push/fold bubble. I understand the traditional ICM EV calculations for accumulating more chips in regular STTs, but DONs are much more complicated in that chips in general have a binary value, where you either still have some or you don't, and accumulating more is only worth as much as it increases your odds of folding into the money.

So basically, the decision to push or fold is based on which one has a smaller chance of busting you, not whether the shove is +EV from a raw chip perspective.

It's easy to calculate your odds of busting from shoving any given hand, assuming you can put a range on the players behind you left to act.

What I can't figure out though, is how to figure out what your odds are of folding into the money at any given time. Without that half of the equation it's impossible to judge if the risk of a shove is smaller than the risk of blinding out.

I find myself eyeballing it most of the time, simply based on what my chip-stack is relative to the 6th place player, and how the blinds will play out in the coming hands.

But there must be a more math based approach. Has anyone come up with a solid formula for calculating your odds of folding into the money at any given point in a DON?
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:11 PM   #325
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Here's a great example of a marginal situation where it would be really useful to know my odds of folding into the money at this point:

Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75.00/t150.00 Blinds - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (SB): t990.00 M = 4.40
BB: t1743.00 M = 7.75
UTG: t1780.00 M = 7.91
UTG+1: t4930.00 M = 21.91
MP: t1092.00 M = 4.85
CO: t875.00 M = 3.89
BTN: t3590.00 M = 15.96

Pre Flop: (t225) Hero is SB with A A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t4915, 3 folds

I'm about 85% against his range, pretty much no matter what it is (it's at least wider than 10% because he is the big stack and has shoved the last 3 hands). So basically, calling this shove puts me at a 15% chance of busting out.

The tough question, then, is what are my odds of folding into the money if I fold this hand? I honestly don't know how to calculate that. There are 2 stacks that will be blinded out before me if they don't risk their stacks to pick up some chips in the mean time. I'm assuming I'm at a greater than 15% chance of blinding out if I fold this hand and wait for the two smaller stacks to risk it first, but how do I calculate that?
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