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STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

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Old 05-22-2010, 04:26 PM   #251
talkinaway
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

I don't know if this belongs in the beginner thread or the Forum proper, but here goes....I was wondering why folks on FTP don't play Matrix SnGs - particularly the folks who 10-table superturbos. If we all banded together and played Matrix tourneys, there would be all sorts of advantages, for only a few disadvantages:

Advantages:
A) Everyone multitables. You might get a few people who can't handle 4 tables at once.
B) Less rake. If you play $6.50 tournaments single table, you're probably rolled for $26 matrix tourneys. Variance of a standard STT is probably abou the same as the variance of a matrix that costs 4 times as much. And, generally speaking, you'll get a break on the rake.
C) Less results oriented. Instead of seeing your result every single table, you can easily ignore that and get a summary every 4 tables of how you did. Nice advantage psychologically speaking.
D) Easy to register for those who don't have ninjas and wizards to autoregister.
E) Great exit points for Step 3 and Step 4 tickets.

Disadvantages:
A) Tougher players. Plain $26 STTs and matrix $26 STTs are about the same difficulty, but the latter can be played by players who are "rolled" for $6.50. They may be a little out of their depth at first.
B) Table limits. If you are allowed to play 12 SnGs, you can only enter 2 Matrix tourneys at a time. Since they count for 5 SnGs, you can only get 2 more separate regular SnGs, for a total of 10 games.
C) Matrix Pool payouts. Personally, I think you can ignore these, and you'll be making the right decision 99% of the time. Just play good 5:3:2 standard SnG poker (or 2:1 if you like 6-max). Let the pool take care of itself, and don't make any weird plays to gain survival or KO points.
D) They don't start. Period. This could be solved if players banned together and entered them!

Someone please join me in the matrix SnGs....I'm lonely!
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Old 05-22-2010, 04:36 PM   #252
mrzblue
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Re: NEED HELP, Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey_The_Bear View Post
Play a bunch of 6max online to get a feel for it, that should help you get ranges and stuff down
Thanks for the advice, but as noted I am 58 and don't play or trust on line. I am also not sure that on line equates to live play. I used to play a bunch on cardplayers "free" site, mostly 9 man SNG's for practice. Ran 1000 points to 375,000 and quit. Any suggestions to which training site would be good? I will post in coaching forum and see what comes up.
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Old 05-23-2010, 01:41 PM   #253
Kvaughan
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by talkinaway View Post
I don't know if this belongs in the beginner thread or the Forum proper, but here goes....I was wondering why folks on FTP don't play Matrix SnGs - particularly the folks who 10-table superturbos. If we all banded together and played Matrix tourneys, there would be all sorts of advantages, for only a few disadvantages:

Advantages:
A) Everyone multitables. You might get a few people who can't handle 4 tables at once.
B) Less rake. If you play $6.50 tournaments single table, you're probably rolled for $26 matrix tourneys. Variance of a standard STT is probably abou the same as the variance of a matrix that costs 4 times as much. And, generally speaking, you'll get a break on the rake.
C) Less results oriented. Instead of seeing your result every single table, you can easily ignore that and get a summary every 4 tables of how you did. Nice advantage psychologically speaking.
D) Easy to register for those who don't have ninjas and wizards to autoregister.
E) Great exit points for Step 3 and Step 4 tickets.

Disadvantages:
A) Tougher players. Plain $26 STTs and matrix $26 STTs are about the same difficulty, but the latter can be played by players who are "rolled" for $6.50. They may be a little out of their depth at first.
B) Table limits. If you are allowed to play 12 SnGs, you can only enter 2 Matrix tourneys at a time. Since they count for 5 SnGs, you can only get 2 more separate regular SnGs, for a total of 10 games.
C) Matrix Pool payouts. Personally, I think you can ignore these, and you'll be making the right decision 99% of the time. Just play good 5:3:2 standard SnG poker (or 2:1 if you like 6-max). Let the pool take care of itself, and don't make any weird plays to gain survival or KO points.
D) They don't start. Period. This could be solved if players banned together and entered them!

Someone please join me in the matrix SnGs....I'm lonely!
I have no idea why you want people to join you. If it's you with a bunch of fish, you sould keep your mouth shut IMO and take their money. People don't play them because of the matrix pool. The individual games and the survival bonus both reward usual nitty SnG strategy, but the knockout bonus rewards confrontation. These incentives are at odds and there doesn't seem to be a way to optimize both.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:02 PM   #254
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by Gravity69 View Post
Hey ive been starting on SNG's lately and thinking about buying SNG wiz or SNGPT. I just wanted to know which one is recommended. They both do the same thing right? Its like choosing between PT3 or HEM?
Im about to buy one of them right now, if anyones reading can you help me out
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:30 PM   #255
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by Gravity69 View Post
Im about to buy one of them right now, if anyones reading can you help me out
I have both, but like SnGWiz better. Better graphical layout and easier to handle imo. Not sure about the computing differences though....
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:50 PM   #256
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by WillyBeemen View Post
I have both, but like SnGWiz better. Better graphical layout and easier to handle imo. Not sure about the computing differences though....
Thanks man ill get SNGWiz then.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:39 PM   #257
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

I'm sure this has been asked 100 times before, but how does the 15+1 on Stars compare with the 11+1 or 22+2 on Tilt, in terms of game softness?

Thanks
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:46 AM   #258
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by iDonkYoU View Post
I'm sure this has been asked 100 times before, but how does the 15+1 on Stars compare with the 11+1 or 22+2 on Tilt, in terms of game softness?

Thanks
There is no right answer to this. sry. You'll hear people say "oh, [insert sitename here] is so much tougher" or "there are less regs on [insert sitename here]", etc.

I'd say they are about the same and you have to gameselect on both sites. If the games on FTP are softer then the higher rake% makes up for that.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:10 PM   #259
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by jurrasstoil View Post
There is no right answer to this. sry. You'll hear people say "oh, [insert sitename here] is so much tougher" or "there are less regs on [insert sitename here]", etc.

I'd say they are about the same and you have to gameselect on both sites. If the games on FTP are softer then the higher rake% makes up for that.
You're suppose to table select at these levels?

Right now I'm registering for 6 games when I want to play a session and registering for the next game available every time I'm done with one. Do you think my hourly would go up if I did table selection?
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:55 PM   #260
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

[QUOTE=iDonkYoU;19144899]You're suppose to table select at these levels?

QUOTE]

I find this very difficult too, people on here are always going on about avoiding the regs, but almost every time I look in the $6.50s at Stars there's a group of tables with at least 3 people registered in lots of them (presumably multitabling regs) - seems very hard to avoid.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:01 PM   #261
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by TT6 View Post

I find this very difficult too, people on here are always going on about avoiding the regs, but almost every time I look in the $6.50s at Stars there's a group of tables with at least 3 people registered in lots of them (presumably multitabling regs) - seems very hard to avoid.
It's not so much that table selecting is hard. It's just that a lot of regs at these levels are bad, and playing against some occasionally doesn't affect my winrate very much, so getting in volume by not table-selecting still probably results in a better hourly.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:57 AM   #262
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DON: Why Minraise ?

Hi guys,

I play 6max Turbo SnG (most on betfair) and the first 2000 Games is was pretty happy about my game and may ROI. In the last few weeks there are some new players there, starting to make minraise (2xBB - 2,5BB) in all situations of the game (beginning, bubble, etc.). I don´t like this move, because it gives the blinds good odds to call, otherwise in the mid. and late stages the smaller stacks fold most of the time, to get into the money.

What do you think about minraise at a DON and if only at the end of the game ?
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Old 05-26-2010, 03:24 PM   #263
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Maybe this isn't a basic question idk. But do standard shove/fold ICM Nash calcs assume that other players are also playing correctly? And how should you adjust if players are playing tighter or looser than optimal?
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:49 AM   #264
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by t_roy View Post
Maybe this isn't a basic question idk. But do standard shove/fold ICM Nash calcs assume that other players are also playing correctly? And how should you adjust if players are playing tighter or looser than optimal?
You adjust there push- & callingranges in wiz
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Old 05-27-2010, 09:47 AM   #265
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

I have about a 5% ROI in 200 $5 sngs. I have heard of the concept of ICM, and how it can affect decisions, but I haven't the first clue how to calculate it. Is this what programs such as SnG wizard do? I have HEM and if you think SnG wizard is important for a player like myself I will buy it. Is ICM as important as I think it is in a SnG?

Thanks.
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Old 05-27-2010, 02:48 PM   #266
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by newapproach View Post
I have about a 5% ROI in 200 $5 sngs. I have heard of the concept of ICM, and how it can affect decisions, but I haven't the first clue how to calculate it. Is this what programs such as SnG wizard do? I have HEM and if you think SnG wizard is important for a player like myself I will buy it. Is ICM as important as I think it is in a SnG?

Thanks.
As far as bubble play goes (which can be argued as the most important part of a sng), it is the most important and essential beginner concept. IMHO of course. So buying sng wizard would be a well worth while purchase.
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Old 05-29-2010, 03:58 PM   #267
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Hello Chaps.

I'm currently playing a mixture of $1+0.20 and $2+0.40 6 player regular SNGs on Titan poker and I'm doing quite well I think. MY ROI is 22% (although my sample size is only 180 games but hopefully it is a good indication as I certainly don't feel as though I have simply been running good - quite the opposite!). I deposited $45 and I now have around $130.

My plan now with my $130 is to move to a new site and collect the deposit bonus and repeat this a few times until I have a few thousand. Does this seem realistic? My goal over the next year is to turn this $130 into $10,000.

At the moment I only play single tables. Do you think I should learn to multitable just now while the stakes are very low or should I wait until I get to higher level games where the rake is a much smaller percentage (currently 20%!)?
Is it possible to multitable without buying any software?

Here is my sharkscope graph.

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Old 05-30-2010, 11:15 AM   #268
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

I wouldn't move from site to site, I would select a major site with good volume and get a solid feel for the game you play there. I know Tilt's $2 sng's have a .25 rake, just over 10%, and are extremely soft. As far as making $10,000 single tabling micro sng's, that's highly unrealistic.

I would recommend giving 4 tabling a shot, I prefer stacking tables. If you want to make money playing sng's you really have to multi table to make a decent hourly. At the $2 level you do not need a hud imo, the players are ridiculously awful as i'm sure you know.

Learn to multi table now at small stakes so you are prepared at larger ones. Use smart roll management and study and you should move up these levels in no time, if you can play more than 1 table at a time

GL.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:36 AM   #269
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by JHolsinger88 View Post
I wouldn't move from site to site, I would select a major site with good volume and get a solid feel for the game you play there. I know Tilt's $2 sng's have a .25 rake, just over 10%, and are extremely soft. As far as making $10,000 single tabling micro sng's, that's highly unrealistic.

I would recommend giving 4 tabling a shot, I prefer stacking tables. If you want to make money playing sng's you really have to multi table to make a decent hourly. At the $2 level you do not need a hud imo, the players are ridiculously awful as i'm sure you know.

Learn to multi table now at small stakes so you are prepared at larger ones. Use smart roll management and study and you should move up these levels in no time, if you can play more than 1 table at a time

GL.
Thanks for your reply. So the plan is to start multi-tabling then. I'll move to a site where the rake is less and I can get rakeback but surely there is value to be had in moving around and collecting bonus?

I would have thought I would be able to double my money pretty quickly on a new site when I am getting the bonus. All I need to be able to do is play break even poker but I would hope to make 20% roi plus bonus? Surely this is a good thing when playing small stakes.

My plan wasn't to make $10,000 single tabling micro sngs; it was to start with the micros and increase the stakes whenever I have 50 buyins at the next level.

I do intend to do a lot of reading over the summer. At the moment I have university exams so can't play very much and definitely can't do more reading. But Colin Moshman's book will be read in a couple of months.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:12 PM   #270
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by iain3915 View Post
surely there is value to be had in moving around and collecting bonus?

I would have thought I would be able to double my money pretty quickly on a new site when I am getting the bonus. All I need to be able to do is play break even poker but I would hope to make 20% roi plus bonus? Surely this is a good thing when playing small stakes..
There is value to be had in this, but beware, most bonus offers will take a lot of grinding if you're playing low level SNGs (especially if you're not mass multi-tabling).

I could be wrong, but you may end up finding that if you get good rakeback at a particular site it'll be worth more than some of the poor conversion rates on deposit bonuses at other sites.
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:35 PM   #271
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

hey 2+2,

took an extended break from poker for a while (got burned out basically), cashed out most of what i had on stars, but left 6 bucks on there. well, i started back this weekend, and for a challenge, decided that i would try to grind up from my 6 bucks instead of redepositing. playing the 1+.20 stt's on pokerstars, and so far i've gotten it up to 17.39 playing 2-4 tables at a time.

i hate the high rake at the low levels, so i want to move up to a better limit where the rake is 10% rather than 20%, but i don't want my ror to be high. eventually, i want to be able to do the 2.20 180-man turbos and the 4.40 180-mans, but i know it will be a while before my roll can support that full time.

all that said, basically, i just want to know when would be a good time to switch to the 5.50's, or if i should get to a certain point and do the 3.40s and then do the 5.50s once i got a roll. i feel like i'm smashing the 1 dollar tables, but at the same time, the rake is bad and i'd rather move to a better buy-in sooner rather than later.

tl;dr: what would be a good bankroll for a returning player who wants to do 5.50 stt sngs?
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:14 PM   #272
ready 2 win
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

Hey,

I already posted this in the internet forum but I get onlya lot of stupid answers here so I want to try it also here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ready 2 win
I am thinking to switch back to STT after a year of cash games. How are the games nowadays in the $6-$27 range (non-turbo/turbo)? I made the witch to cash game since I thought back then that STT are pretty much explored but now I really thinking to give it another try.

In before "no money STT - everyone is solid"
Thx!
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:02 AM   #273
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by thedirtydirty View Post
hey 2+2,

took an extended break from poker for a while (got burned out basically), cashed out most of what i had on stars, but left 6 bucks on there. well, i started back this weekend, and for a challenge, decided that i would try to grind up from my 6 bucks instead of redepositing. playing the 1+.20 stt's on pokerstars, and so far i've gotten it up to 17.39 playing 2-4 tables at a time.

i hate the high rake at the low levels, so i want to move up to a better limit where the rake is 10% rather than 20%, but i don't want my ror to be high. eventually, i want to be able to do the 2.20 180-man turbos and the 4.40 180-mans, but i know it will be a while before my roll can support that full time.

all that said, basically, i just want to know when would be a good time to switch to the 5.50's, or if i should get to a certain point and do the 3.40s and then do the 5.50s once i got a roll. i feel like i'm smashing the 1 dollar tables, but at the same time, the rake is bad and i'd rather move to a better buy-in sooner rather than later.

tl;dr: what would be a good bankroll for a returning player who wants to do 5.50 stt sngs?
50 buy ins is more than sufficient at the $5.50 level, if you're a winning player that is.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:27 AM   #274
Maddman
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Hand qtn. Micro stakes KO sng-non turbo.

First post so soz if I stuff up something...
Admittedly my pre raise with KJs was bad but following that, should I have called all in with the draw that I had?
(I also reckon his push was terrible but I guess it's a KO?)

Cheers in advance!


Poker Stars $1.00+$0.25+$0.15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t270 M = 6
UTG+1: t2270 M = 50.44
MP1: t2900 M = 64.44
MP2: t1470 M = 32.67
CO: t2600 M = 57.78
BTN: t1250 M = 27.78
Hero (SB): t1400 M = 31.11
BB: t1340 M = 29.78

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is SB with K J
UTG calls t30, 1 fold, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, CO calls t30, BTN calls t30, Hero raises to t180, BB calls t150, 1 fold, MP1 calls t150, MP2 calls t150, CO calls t150, BTN calls t150

Flop: (t1110) 2 9 6 (6 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t300, MP1 raises to t2720 all in, MP2 folds, CO folds, BTN folds, Hero calls t1220 all in, BB folds

Turn: (t3850) 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t3850) 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: t3850
MP1 shows 9 8 (two pair, Nines and Fours)
Hero shows K J (a pair of Fours)
MP1 wins t3850
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:44 PM   #275
jojojojo89
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Re: ****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

hey
i started to play the 18man 2,2$ turbo stt on fulltilt. i wondered what roi is realistic on the long run?
sry for my english. hope you can understand it!
thanks
jo
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