Thanks, I possibly just missed the range sited above in the post, will go back reread it. Was just wondering what you used etc...

Oh good lord, let's not go down that path. I bet... well.. I bet you can fill a book with the stuff not in the book...

cheers mate. now i know the reasoning behind the examples they make a lot more sence as do the calculations. i also know now a bit more how playing experience isnt just gained at the table but away studying these situations.
one last question; from what ive read and experienced so far, am i right in feeling that the wider the range villain will call/push with early in a game the tighter the range you do likewise but as the blinds increase you start pushingcalling with?

many thanks

great stuff and thx for the shout out. i meant to respond earlier but i was playing when i first read this, then took a few days off 2+2, and just now getting to it..

to be any good you really need to know all of this. when i started i worked a lot of calculations by hand (with the help of pokerstove for percentages and the icm website).

once you do enough and understand it, then it is a good time to use the poker software sngpt or sngwiz. it is really dumb to use sngwiz/sngpt if you dont understand how they work. sorta like teaching a kid math on a calculater, they can tell you that 9x9=81 but have no idea why...

eventually this **** just sinks in your head and you know the result without doing it.

one of my favorites and one everyone should memorize is L4, 1500 stakes. if anyone opens, you just shove AK from any position. does not matter even if a nit opens from ug. JJ is almost an autoshove, but does not play quite as well as AK vs an ug nit, and if an ug nit opens JJ it is gonna be pretty close to neutral ev so better to just fold it (at least at the higher stakes where you play a zillion hands with certain opponents and you know there ranges dead nuts). vs anyone else, JJ is an autoshove.

luv it...

Epic Bump!
Great post, makes me want to go digging and see what I can find too.

-Hiway

thank you for this. I think this type of information is exactly what most low stakes grinders like myself need to take our games to the next level.

congrats on 1k poast


formula overload

hey!

anybody knows if this screenshot from the icm-calculator-results is in fact an icm-calculator where you can type in all outcomes at once and get the results all together?
at holdemresources you have to type in the stacksizes for an possible outcome an you have to note the equity before typing in the stacksizes for another outcome :-(

Umm, no it's not. But can't you just open new windows/tabs or open new instances of the program you are using?

Brag: I mostly use this ICM calculator,


I think the download link for it is probably broken though.

yes, of course - but it looks sooo pretty :-)
an instance for an outcome would work but i stopped thinking when i saw your thread.
i do this stuff for rare hands but its really an awesome thread man - thx

ZOMG i think I found my hw for today

ty for this

Great post man, thank you!!!

How you do that?

I tried it in Wiz but Wiz seems to adjust SB and BB in order to have BB = 2 x SB.
For exemple, I create a blind level 225/375 for actual blind level 75/150 where I raised 2.5BB (t375). When I use this level in Wiz SB = 225 BB = 450. If I create a blind level 225/778, when I use it in Wiz SB = 389 BB = 778....

This trick should work for 3bet situations too (hand 2), isn't it?

Yeah, unfortunately wiz automatically re-adjusts the SB now. I'm not sure why it was changed to do that, but you could try suggesting they change/fix this at the sng wiz website. And yep, that trick would work for standard 3-bet situations as well.

Hadn't seen this before. Nice post.

Someone asked about a formula for when you are shoving instead of calling. Unfortunately, situations where you are shoving are less straight forward, since you have to factor in the probability of stealing the blinds or getting called by different players (card removal effects are also a problem). This makes any general formula very unwieldy.

There is one case where you can get a simplified formula however. This will only work when there is only one possible caller (e.g. BvB) and when EQ_Lose = 0 (i.e. you have the smaller stack size).

P_Win > ( EQ_Fold - EQ_Steal*P_Steal ) / ( EQ_Win*(1 - P_Steal) )

Where P_Steal is the probability of stealing successfully and EQ_Steal is the equity of stealing.
E.g. If you assume villain calls with 30% of hands, then P_Steal = 0.7.

pktones what are you thoughts on icmizer in comparison to wiz?

I haven't really used it, but it sounds like it has some good features for specific situations (it also has some glaring limitations atm, such as leaving out action after hero folds). Different programs are often useful for different situations, you just have to understand their limitations. And to understand the limitations of a program you need to understand how the ICM calculations work. You can even combine the results of different programs (i.e. use EV_shove from one and EV_fold from another) or make adjustments to the results of these programs by adding in some by hand calculations.

Personally, if I want accurate results, I either do calculations by hand or with the aid of the beta nash calculator (which I find quite useful). If I just want quick results, I might use something like sng wiz and just be aware of the limitations as I am using it.

Current ICMIZER is in a very beta phase, results are only accurate for some situations. But unlike wizard they are accurate there. But anyway:

I have almost finished new version which will be useful in much more tournament spots than current version. It should be out before Dec 17 I believe.

An excellent and nice structured post.
I know it's a bit late to say this, but considering that only now I saw this post, I'll mention again: nice job sir

Bump to stop archiving

Definitely learned a little something. Good to see these equations, I am trying to learn them...I still can't always bring myself to follow the ICM on the bubble though, it's something I am working on.

Thank you!

I am not sure how to do hand 3. I know I'm not the most intelligent. I posted my ignorance on this matter in stt beginner thread with a link to this, hope that's cool.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using 2+2 Forums

That's fine man. It is the same as pushfold. Figure out the icm equity of the main possiblities (you win the hand, lose it, or he/you folds). Use a hand equity calculator like pokerstove or equillab to figure out your chances to win versus his range. Calculate the possibilities multiply by the value of the end stacks and voila, you have figure out the icm for a post flop play.

Quality bump Ty sirs

I think I've read this thread 100 times. Still can't figure out my numbers! God dammit. Bump!