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STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

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Old 11-28-2018, 01:37 PM   #1
Daisy Juice
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It has been years...

tldr.

Feels odd to be back, typing out a post for the SST forum here on 2+2.

A little back ground information on myself- It was around '09 and I was fairly active on the tables and here on 2+2 asking for advice and posting hand breakdowns for $1-$10 sng's.
*graph below after 2k of profit.

This was the Full Tilt days of course and pre black Friday etc.
I was young, 18-19 years old and had time, a lot of it.

Fast forward to now, time is more limited, I am married, live in a different country to my place of birth and have a whole slew of different responsibilities than I did before hand, in my younger years.

I have since then played here and there, some live, some online but mainly just poking around for a bit of fun, mostly to stem boredom.
However, a nice little profit that I netted over the weekend playing a live cash game in Zurich with a buddy who loves the live scene has me itching to get back on the online tables and start approaching it seriously again, albeit, better planned out this time.

I do currently have an account on stars and its use has been here and there.

I was my no means a baller back in the day, nor did I have a huge sample size to base my roi% off etc but I did/do understand ICM, fundamental turbo sng play and have patience.
I managed to turn a 20 dollar deposit into several thousand over the course of my play.

The question I pose is, what software is now relevant for sng grinders?
I am thinking of ICMzer and something like Jivaro.
Thoughts?

I will be starting at the Micro's and looking to get back up to the $10 levels, over a course of say, 6 months of part time play, multi tabling obv.

If I remember anything from the old days, I will brace myself for the trolling but do encourage constructive input.

Also, by no means do I believe to be able to achieve the same ROI% as before, i do understand the games have become tougher and players have dispelled and/or diversified themselves etc.

Thank you!

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 12-05-2018, 05:07 AM   #2
siebenacht
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Re: It has been years...

to make it short:
1. if you're interested in the game, research spots, take notes on opponents, start to exploit them, you should be fine
2. the games aren't that much harder, the conditions are just a little tougher, you have less traffic and some formats are pretty much dead right now, so you have to find the right place in order to play certain sng formats
3. software you need: pokertracker, icmizer / holdem ressources, table organizer software like starshelper / table optimizer, equilab or something similar
maybe also invest time in solvers like piosolver, simple postflop etc, but that's not that important in the sng area, especially in the lower limits
4. yes, i think if you were able to be a solid winner in the past, you are very likely to achieve similar results in the present, if you put in enough work
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:19 PM   #3
Living Abortion
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Re: It has been years...

I second the software recommendations... Maybe CardRunners EV as well. Pick up a few books as well that were published recently as an update. Get familiar with basic hud stats as well and how to use them properly.

I think the key to winning ultimately comes down discipline off the table.

Good luck Daisy! It can be done. Let me know if you need any help. Feel free to shoot me a PM if need be.
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:19 AM   #4
Daisy Juice
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Re: It has been years...

siebenacht and Living Abortion I really appreciate the honest and informative feedback and tips.

I will be implementing these in the coming weeks and hopefully, time permitting, be able to put in substantial volume.
I will also, as suggested, get my hands on some of the above mentioned software.
Icmizer and table optimizer seem to be where I am leaning at the moment in terms of purchasing.

Again, thank you and perhaps keep an eye on your inboxes, may send through an update in the coming months to see how I get off the ground
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:19 PM   #5
Living Abortion
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Re: It has been years...

Oh I forgot a few....
Get Equilab. It is free. You can look up on youtube on how to use the hand matrix and do some very basic but needed study.

GET FLOPZILLA!!! This is cheap. $35 forever, and is a massive step up from equilab. Youtube search it and get an idea of what you can do with it and you'll see why it is a must.

If I were you I would prioritize these two programs...
ICMizer, either purchase it outright or get the subscription. You'll want to get the quiz portion as well and honestly I would spend an hour a day in that program for the next two months studying push fold ranges for every stack depth they give you. After that you shouldn't need to use the quiz portion after (maybe once every couple of weeks) that but will want to keep the math/solving portion to continue loading hands from your tracker or life to have it help you "solve" some preflop shoving spots.

Flopzilla- This is very important... Like I said youtube it and you'll see how it help post flop navigation. Use this and start creating ranges. I would write a post on this alone, and how range theorem if you will, works.

Good luck! Let us know how things are going, what programs you get for now, and what you think about them.
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Old 01-23-2019, 03:22 AM   #6
Kush Wood
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Club Re: It has been years...

First off thanks Daisy Juice for starting this thread. I've been a weekend player for the past 6-7 years with little to show for it. Regardless I found this thread answered all of the questions I had regarding getting serious about things because I have undying determination to make it happen.

I am currently playing $3-$5 SNGs on 888 poker and I use only PT4 at the moment but was looking for other software suggestions to increase my edge.

I attribute my lack of success in the past to lack of time spent away from the tables. I appreciate the suggestions by Living Abortion and siebenacht which seems like a good starting point... I must ask are these programs permitted while playing or are some restricted to use while offline?

I'm stoked about trying the quiz challenges for ICMizer as I was looking for something to do away from the tables. ICM is completely new to me so I think I will start with the trial and see where it takes me.

I recently read Will Tipton's "Expert Heads up No-Limit Vol 1" which I found helpful yet quite advanced for my level of play. I will likely come back to it at a later time. It was also recommended on another thread to read Collin Moshman's Sit 'n Go book which was said to be the most relevant SNG book today. DOes anybody have any other reading suggestions?
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:32 PM   #7
Ronny Mahoni
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Re: It has been years...

There are programms which are forbidden to use while playing.
Like ICM-Calculators or Table-Selection Tools in Blind-Lobby games.
These vary from site to site, but should be easy to find out.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:50 AM   #8
Nixie Bobtie
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Re: It has been years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Abortion View Post

ICMizer, either purchase it outright or get the subscription.
Is purchasing ICMizer outright even an option? Recently looked into this and was disappointed to see it didn't seem to be the case. If I'm missing something please tell me!
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:58 AM   #9
dwarfman
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Re: It has been years...

As someone who has also semi-recently picked up poker again as a serious hobby, something I've been wondering is if there is one source of truth for soft sites in terms of SnGs?

The last time I played with a level of seriousness was pre Black Friday... site selection was barely anything to worry about. Since November I've played about 1,000 SnGs on Stars, and whilst I have profited - it is fairly clear to me that the quality of play on Stars is surely higher than it may be elsewhere.

There's a few random WordPress websites kicking around which claim to list the softest sites for SnGs, but who knows who might be behind them... I would suggest they are simply listed in order of affiliate commission percentage.

P.S. I'm a non-US player

P.P.S. From what I can gather from the landscape today, soft games are such gems that people seem reluctant to share names of sites they perceive to be soft, which I guess is understandable. I'm just wondering if someone can point me in the direction of a reliable resource.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:27 PM   #10
Kush Wood
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Re: It has been years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwarfman View Post
As someone who has also semi-recently picked up poker again as a serious hobby, something I've been wondering is if there is one source of truth for soft sites in terms of SnGs?
I recently made the switch from stars to 888 poker and notice that the play seems softer overall. I must say I have not been profiting consistently with either site but the players do seem weaker on sites other than stars.
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:45 AM   #11
dwarfman
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Re: It has been years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush Wood View Post
I recently made the switch from stars to 888 poker and notice that the play seems softer overall. I must say I have not been profiting consistently with either site but the players do seem weaker on sites other than stars.
I was very close to registering for 888 the other day but then I saw a concerning thread in NVG about them permabanning & confiscating funds from tons of 2+2 posters on suspicion of using AI, with most claiming to have never used anything of the sort. Wondering if that still happens or if they've sorted it.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:39 PM   #12
Kush Wood
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Re: It has been years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwarfman View Post
I was very close to registering for 888 the other day but then I saw a concerning thread in NVG about them permabanning & confiscating funds from tons of 2+2 posters on suspicion of using AI, with most claiming to have never used anything of the sort. Wondering if that still happens or if they've sorted it.
It's funny I just asked them about forbidden programs and this is the reply I received from 888: "Please bear in mind that any software which help track players or assists in taking seats is not allowed on our website. Also the use of artificial intelligence is strictly against our terms and conditions and will not be tolerated at our site.

More information about allowed and forbidden programs can be found in our User Agreement:

https://www.888poker.com/security-and-privacy/user-agreement-nonuk/"

Oddly his reply states that tracking software is not allowed but when I read the user agreement at the link above it states that it is allowed. I'm a little confused so I plan to reply for clarification. Perhaps I will include the response here if anybody is interested.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:58 AM   #13
dwarfman
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Re: It has been years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush Wood View Post
It's funny I just asked them about forbidden programs and this is the reply I received from 888: "Please bear in mind that any software which help track players or assists in taking seats is not allowed on our website. Also the use of artificial intelligence is strictly against our terms and conditions and will not be tolerated at our site.

More information about allowed and forbidden programs can be found in our User Agreement:

https://www.888poker.com/security-and-privacy/user-agreement-nonuk/"

Oddly his reply states that tracking software is not allowed but when I read the user agreement at the link above it states that it is allowed. I'm a little confused so I plan to reply for clarification. Perhaps I will include the response here if anybody is interested.
Yeah that's a poor response on their part, intentionally ambiguous. I also note that their ToS is intentionally ambiguous. It includes reference to "Permitted Aids", the wording of which suggests PT4 is fine, but provides no clear examples of what is actually permitted. Then it references "Software Aids" which are not permitted, worded in a such a way that might NOT permit PT4. And then you have that email they sent you, which is even more unequivocal that they don't want you using PT4.

It seems to me that they have written a vague set of rules in order to satisfy reasoning for banning players who simply don't satisfy the image of their site, or to be even more cynical, to help with their cash flow in terms of funds confiscation.

I'm not going to risk playing there.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:53 PM   #14
LeandroC
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Re: It has been years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by siebenacht View Post
to make it short:
cmizer / holdem ressources, table organizer software like starshelper / table optimizer, equilab or something similar
I play micro limits (0.50€ and 1€) sits turbo 6 MAX. I feel confortable playing 4 tables at one but sometimes I play 6 or 8 and when I do that I feel that I lose focus especialy in the tables where I am HU.
I'm still a noob working with this kid of programs and I only use Jivaro.
Do you think starshelper will make a good impact?
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:51 PM   #15
siebenacht
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Re: It has been years...

Having a comfortable setup, whether you just use the native client with perfect configuration or also use an additional program like starshelper is definitely going to help your focus immensely.

In Poker it's basically like in the rest of life. If you invest money in tools for the work you want to do, you tend to be more successful. Think about the money you would get out by raising your average roi only about 0.5% through such helper software, because you're going to misclick less, timeout less, etc...
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:50 AM   #16
guedez
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Re: It has been years...

Any thoughts on sharkytrator? I sent them an email and this was their resopnse:

Please check info on the website

Kind regards,

Customer Support Department
Sharkystrator

---

I don't really see anything conclusive on their website so kinda dont wanna risk with this new stars' policy
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:48 PM   #17
Eurodonk1
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Re: It has been years...

Can totally relate with this thread...

Around 2011 i used to play semi serious. Spent alot of time on the forums. Had a couple decent scores in MTT's.

Just like OP, life for me has changed alot since i was a 23 yo single guy. I now have a house, gf, kids etc etc. Thus meaning i cant really sit in my pants all day and grind $5-$11 MTT's.

I have recently gravitated back to poker. Played a few live comps and a bunch online. Had a profitable 1st month back playing MTT's but as i expected i just dont have the time. Often playing from 10pm till around 3/4am on a weekend. Then up with the family at 7/8am to do family stuff. Just not sustainable.

Last week i played a small sample of $3.50 STT's. Again turning a profit, but again finding that im not able to get in the volume required.

Cash games are not an option as i just spew at an alarming rate.

Ive turned to $3 Spin and Go's just recent. Theyre quick so allow me to get in a semi decent volume. Theyre shallow so i can utilise my perceived push/fold edge at those stakes. I understand that variance will be insane in this game type, but they seem super soft. Anyone have any opinions on this format?

Also, OP hows it going since youve been back?
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Old 03-05-2019, 03:04 PM   #18
Eurodonk1
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Re: It has been years...

Can totally relate with this thread...

Around 2011 i used to play semi serious. Spent alot of time on the forums. Had a couple decent scores in MTT's.

Just like OP, life for me has changed alot since i was a 23 yo single guy. I now have a house, gf, kids etc etc. Thus meaning i cant really sit in my pants all day and grind $5-$11 MTT's.

I have recently gravitated back to poker. Played a few live comps and a bunch online. Had a profitable 1st month back playing MTT's but as i expected i just dont have the time. Often playing from 10pm till around 3/4am on a weekend. Then up with the family at 7/8am to do family stuff. Just not sustainable.

Last week i played a small sample of $3.50 STT's. Again turning a profit, but again finding that im not able to get in the volume required.

Cash games are not an option as i just spew at an alarming rate.

Ive turned to $3 Spin and Go's just recent. Theyre quick so allow me to get in a semi decent volume. Theyre shallow so i can utilise my perceived push/fold edge at those stakes. I understand that variance will be insane in this game type, but they seem super soft. Anyone have any opinions on this format?

Also, OP hows it going since youve been back?
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