when I first started playing them, I experimented with a 30,25,20,15,10 structure to simulate the Fifty/50. The results are grossly different from the 60,10,10,10,10.

Thanks. It felt dirty. This would be a fold under the old DON structure where everybody gets the same payout, or still not? Not that that matters.

Is it correct for BB to call with ATC? (guessing not but he was going to)

I have never used wizard which is why I came and asked. Good to know because this spot comes up now and again. These $5 DON's are fun though and easy money with or without it.

In an old DON you could argue either call with only AA or fold even AA because shorty is so likely to lose next hand due to cooperation play.

Your next question ,assuming you pushed a rather tight range of 88+,ATs+,AJo villain would lose 1.3% by calling with any two.

Finally, I'd strongly suggest you get the wiz if you want to move to higher limits eventually. GL

Maybe it will help if you think of it this way:

The end of a fifty/50 is really just the beginning of a winner takeall freezeout(albeit unplayed) with a totally fair 5 way chip-chop

Not sure how, everyone is short at the final table of a 45 so play is basically a shove-fest at that point.

You experienced sng guys are use to this i'm sure but variance is a bitch in these. I just busted out of 6 str8 50/50s and each time i was a decent fav when the money went in. They're donking 3 and 4 outers on me left and right mean while i cant hit a 14 out combo draw to save my life.

Anyway my basic strat for these and i admit this likely only works at the lowest stakes as folks will call it all with suck weak holdings Early i play push fold with TT plus and aq+ and ak+ Thinking about removing Aq though it's plus ev as far as chips are concerned but i'm not sure if it's +ev in the over all scheme of things. i know this will make some folks cringe but i like to limp hands like connectors and sooted aces when limped to in lp. I do it because folks call of super light. I've had them call my flop shoves with bottom pair and even ace high with no draw when it was early and effective stacks were O20xbb+

What makes this spot so interesting is that hero has enough chips in his stack to make risking his equity worth the benefit of doubling in this structure. If hero had say 800 chips instead of what he has, the story would be very different. I haven't played with ICM to confirm this, but it seems that there is a point below which the right play is to turtle and hope to sneak in because the added equity of doubling doesn't offset the risk of busting.

I think you need to rethink your approach. This strategy is all wrong IMO. Aggression is important, but early play should be tight to conserve chips and you should actually be more selective about getting it in postflop. First place doesn't pay enough to justify a high variance go-for-broke strategy in these.

Well i confess that you likely know better then i but if villains pf calling range is say 77+ and and any suited ace then what hands should i be pushing? I read somewhere that you don't want to risk it all unless to are atleast 70 percent versus their calling range but that was an old article concerning a standard sng. Not sure what the rule of thumb is for 50/50s.

I find it hard to believe that there are enough players getting it in PF with 77+ and suited Aces in the early levels to make your range profitable. Admittedly my sample is small but I haven't seen a whole lot of crazy action in the early stages.

try playing the nano entries like 1.11 and the 1.08 turbos.

1 tabling ITT

Mindblowing

Is it just me or are the 20s getting near unbeatable? They're sooooo reg stacked.

I do play the $1.08's. Sure there is usually someone who gets it in light in the first level but it's not wild like you see in a micro rebuy. Open shoving AA and KK might be +ev but there is no way that shoving TT or AK\AQ is.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.08 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds 40 Ante (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB (t851)
UTG (t895)
MP (t2425)
CO (t6106)
Button (t3098)
Hero (SB) (t1625)

Hero's M: 2.36

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J
UTG bets t855 (All-In), 1 fold, CO calls t855, 1 fold, Hero ???

Interesting problem. My initial gut instinct was that this was a trivial push for hero as he would have to be beaten by both villains to be eliminated. Running this in wiz directly is unfruitful as it wont do multiway pots anymore. Sending it to the Nash eq program yields the following surprising(to me) result

UTG only should be pushing 13.3%
CO only calls(essentially pushes) 10.7%
Therefore hero calling range is 99+,AQs+,AKo

In practice, I think UTG is pushing much wider and CO is calling much wider(even more so the 1.08 level) so I would go with my gut and push

So should I just kinda disregard getting 7ths and 6ths or w/e and go for the chips? I am thinking throw icm out and making chip ev calls? obv unless extreme shorties or soemthing or 2nd/3rd stack then u have to consider icm some?

thoughts ?

I don't think you can generalize about cases like this other than to state the obvious, that the limitations of ICM,Nash eq etc. are magnified with extreme short stacks/high blinds. That being said, my point was more specific to this example. In that my gut says that villains were pushing much wider than Nash and that therefore my response would be to call somewhat wider than Nash.

This is exactly the kind of spot that makes these Fifty50's so interesting. I initially thought I would fold but then I realized that I only needed to beat the shortie to cash and I was probably ahead of his range. And the potential benefits were huge, should I be able to take down the entire pot. So I shoved and CO called. The shortie turned over A8s and CO turned over 97o! I flopped a J, turned an Ace for good measure, and ended up finishing in first place with ~4500 chips.

Obviously CO's range should have been a hell of a lot tighter than it was but I still think shoving was the right move as long as I'm ahead of the shortie's range. And with CO in the pot it adds to the potential gain should I be able to beat both. This is different from a regular STT, where getting it in here and beating the shortie may still result in me busting in 5th.

All regs except bb who was a fish, I doubt this fish would be calling especially wide though.


[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $50 Buy-in (150/300 blinds, 40 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8190552

MP3: 1,727 (5.8 bb)
CO: 2,300 (7.7 bb)
BTN: 2,151 (7.2 bb)
SB: 815 (2.7 bb)
BB: 4,316 (14.4 bb)
MP1: 1,965 (6.6 bb)
Hero (MP2): 1,726 (5.8 bb)

Preflop: (280) Hero is MP2 with J 8
1 fold, Hero folds?

Both Wiz "avg" and Nash agree, easy fold.

Yeh i couldn't really get wiz to tell me to shove, even setting my edge at -0.1, it just sucks folding a hand "this good" with less than 6bbs and about to hit the blinds, well for me anyway, although i know i like to shove and call looser than a lot of regs.

"It is what it is" B.McNamee

this good? you're barely better than a flip vs a random hand (54/46), and you're a dog vs top 50% (43.5/56.5). there's a desperate stack in the small blind and the tall stack fish in the big blind. this hand is utter dog ****.

now, if you wait a couple hands until you're in a steal position again, you act after the tall stack and the three guys after you have similar stacks. i garuntee you you'll have better steal opportunities. you're currently in second to last, but if you steal one pot, you're in second. don't panic.

While I agree that this spot is a clear fold, this hand is far from dog **** and should be pushed in many similar spots because it is not a huge dog to many (even tight) calling ranges. In other words, this is a push far more often than a truly dog **** hand like Q2o.