I'm looking for any advice about beating these 10 person sit and goes where the top 5 double their money and the other 5 get nothing. It would seem that in some situations, it wouldn't even be good to gii with pocket aces (like if the 5th person is about to get blinded out)

I just started playing/learning about these (Ignition 6-max DONs). Yes, there are some spots where you should open/fold AA and some spots where you should be shoving ATC even with relatively deep stacks. I purchased ICMizer which has been a huge help.

Generally when stacks are < about 20BBs you can push or fold, and you should push very aggressively and call very tightly, especially on the bubble. Most of the exceptions to this are when you are the short stack or the short stack is on your left.

Don't get into marginal situations for your stack early in the tournament, either. Doubling up is far from a guaranteed win, but lose your stack and you're out. A 1000 chip stack 4-handed is more valuable than a starting stack 6 handed (referring to 6-max version)

They have very big benefits. They don't require much of a bankroll to get started and the edge seems decent. One downside is that they are vulnerable to collusion, but most people playing the $5 games I've been playing are morons and don't really understand the format.

Thanks man. I play these on carbon for either $3.50 or $7. I've made the mistake a few times of shoving w a broadway card when I was down to 6 bbs or so, when had I waited someone likely would have busted themself out.

I can't speak for the player pool on Stars, which I'm assuming is where you're playing, but some of my players seem fairly suicidal. Many of my lost games where I had the chip lead have been from shoving and getting snapped by the second stack holding something silly in a spot where he should be calling extremely tight. It is important to consider how much value the chips gained are relative to the risk of another player making a suicidal call.

Based on my play so far I have some advice which may or may not help you depending on how your player pool is similar to/different from mine:

1. Especially with a healthy stack, shove significantly tighter than the NE ranges ICMizer suggests, because opponents will call lighter than they are supposed to.

2. Call significantly tighter than the NE ranges ICMizer suggests, because opponents shove much tighter than they are supposed to.

3. Be patient. Because opponents are not shoving nearly as frequently as they should, you will get many more walks in the BB and opportunities to steal from other positions than you theoretically deserve. Blind pressure is much lower than you'd expect due to this.

4. Fold the river.

ICMizer can help with 1. and 2. as it allows you to adjust opponents calling/shoving ranges.

Edit: I see you're playing on Carbon. Funny that you replied while I was typing this! I just wanted to offer some insights I got after playing these for a few days. I'll reply again when I have a decent sample.

I have been playing the $1.50 ones on Betonline. I've seen some terrible play but people are surprisingly tight for the most part. As mentioned, there are definitely spots where it is correct to fold a monster, because someone else is almost certainly going to get eliminated soon.

In theory, these feel like they should be the easiest thing to make a profit in, but player elimination seems to take way longer, and when you get to 7 and 6 handed, everybody is SO tight, just waiting for the short stacks to screw up.

When I started, I thought I could just be aggressive and bully the table, but I'd get played back at in the earlier stages. Taking a super conservative approach and waiting for other people to screw up is boring, but it works if there's enough bad players. However it doesn't seem to work well when everybody is employing the same ultra conservative strategy, and that's what I'm seeing a fair amount of.

I have been playing the $1.50 ones on Betonline. I've seen some terrible play but people are surprisingly tight for the most part. As mentioned, there are definitely spots where it is correct to fold a monster, because someone else is almost certainly going to get eliminated soon.

In theory, these feel like they should be the easiest thing to make a profit in, but player elimination seems to take way longer, and when you get to 7 and 6 handed, everybody is SO tight, just waiting for the short stacks to screw up.

When I started, I thought I could just be aggressive and bully the table, but I'd get played back at in the earlier stages. Taking a super conservative approach and waiting for other people to screw up is boring, but it works if there's enough bad players. However it doesn't seem to work well when everybody is employing the same ultra conservative strategy, and that's what I'm seeing a fair amount of.

For use as you see fit.

For a DON, If your fee is x% of the prize pool buy-in, you have to be in the money (ITM) (50+x/2)% of the time

Example: If the total buy in is 10 + 1, x= 1/10= 10%. Then you profit if you win at least (50 + 5) = 55% of the time.

Not complaining, but when I saw you posted in this thread I got excited because I respect the quality of your posts and was hoping for some gold.

I do not have a large enough sample to draw conclusions from yet, but most of my bust-outs happen at 5 and 6 players. Once I make it to the money bubble I've cashed 87% of the time. This leads me to believe that I need to work on my game in the early stages of the tournament.

I think the best improvement is to just not get involved in big pots without nutted hands. I am winning quite a few chips early on, even stacking some of the donks that think it's a good strategy to run up a big stack early, but that doesn't make up for the times I get stacked.

Obviously, at even stacks 6-handed, ignoring positional considerations, everybody has an equal share of the prize pool at 1/6. According to ICM, if one player doubles up, he now has 4/15 share of the prize pool, and everybody else who remains has 11/60 share. This means that in order for GII to be equal to folding, you should want 62.5% equity! Of course, ICM pressure is not as great before one is all-in, so it may be possible to play smaller pots with some weaker hands, but I am led to believe that I should be playing extremely tight pre-flop at the early stages and not bloating the pot too much without very strong hands.

Because other players play waaay too many hands pre-flop (at least in my games there are a ton of fish), someone often seems to get stacked early on, or at least the variance of other players' stacks is high. One 1000 stack and one 2000 stack is better for the other players than two 1500 stacks. We gain a lot of EV by not getting involved early if other players at the table are too active.

I believe I can fold more often in later stages as well. Almost all of my bust-outs at blind levels 50|100 and above have been from jamming and getting called, often by a hand which is a pretty big ICM mistake to call with. Out of 200 games there have only been a couple where I ever felt pressured by the blinds, so I could certainly afford to steal less. My ATT is about 40% over all positions at higher blind levels.

I have won 18 buy-ins at the stake I started at over close to 200 games ($5+$.25). I will probably move up before I get a very large sample, in fact I think I'll start mixing in some tables at the next stake very soon.

Sorry to disappoint you but I think my opening sentence showed I didn’t think the posting was earth shattering. Here is another non-earth shattering posting.

The following is taken from an Excel program I wrote that analyzes DON tournaments (also includes SNGs). I only show the summary panel but hopefully this indicates that you can do a lot in a spreadsheet with only average knowledge of Excel and poker math. The model also does simulations and for that you have to know Excel VBA to be most effective.

How are you calculating confidence intervals and RoR? Are you using the formulas based on the standard normal distribution or the binomial distribution?

Using the binomial distribution should give "exact" results for confidence intervals and RoR, as long as we use the assumption that our win probability is constant across the sample. I would be curious to know what the error is when using the standard normal distribution over the binomial distribution. Maybe I can do this in Excel and share the results.

For the profit confidence interval, I used the normal distribution which served for both the SNG and DON. For the ROR I believe I used the formula in Don Blankenship's Blackjack Attack book which he called the short term risk of ruin formula. I did this some years ago and think that was the reference.

I've always used the normal approximation for the binomial, especially for large samples.

I've been playing these a few months now, but am getting torn up by one particular individual who happens to play about 95% of the games running. 6 Max €5 level. Small number of €10 too.

I am really struggling to counter this person, I have tried making stands but almost always seem to run into the top of their range, my steals get picked off and attempts to get value rarely work. They play somewhat loose early, but small raises pf / small flop bet sizing, but often seems to be prepared to play for stacks when raised.
When on the bubble, they will call my shoves fairly light if we are both on the short side.
Appears to steal from me very often, but I have rarely caught them in a bluff post flop, either they bet increasingly large amounts that I call down with second best, or they fold when I show strength, except when I'm either bluffing or semi-bluffing. Min Raises pre flop that look like obvious steals are often big hands that will call a shove. I've become averse to playing hands against them as much as possible but just feel like i'm now easy prey for stealing from meaning I'm generally reaching the bubble short stacked.

Driving me nuts. They changed their SN recently but I could tell it was the same person almost immediately due to fairly unique play style. They have played 1,357 games in the last 2 weeks.

Anyone have any experience in adapting to a player that seems to be able to exploit you?