i provided all this evidence to partypoker, they said they'd investigate, and a day or so later e-mailed me saying they found no evidence of team play.
i'm not going crazy and this is definite collusion right?


I got suspicious after this hand on the bubble of a don, where a pretty tight reg p0kermon5ter makes an overcall with a poor hand, a play like i've never seen him make before. The call is pretty ridiculous, and only makes sense if p0kermon5ter is working as a team with jumping_tree, as i'm the shortest stack so if either of them wins, i bubble.


#Game No : 9687390552
***** Hand History for Game 9687390552 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $55 USD Buy-in Trny: 55042669 Level: 6 Blinds(200/400) - Friday, October 01, 16:11:39 EDT 2010
Table Double or Nothing Speed (10 pays 5) #1465986 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6/10
Seat 10: Midtgard ( 3,500 )
Seat 7: bbmand ( 3,790 )
Seat 2: easybaw19 ( 1,760 )
Seat 6: jodymahaney ( 6,030 )
Seat 1: jumping_tree ( 2,420 )
Seat 5: p0kermon5ter ( 2,500 )
Trny: 55042669 Level: 6
Blinds(200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to easybaw19 [ As Kc ]
jodymahaney folds
bbmand folds
Midtgard folds
jumping_tree is all-In [2,420]
easybaw19 is all-In [1,560]
p0kermon5ter calls [2,020]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, 3c, 9c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5h ]
easybaw19 shows [ As, Kc ]high card Ace.
p0kermon5ter shows [ Jc, 9h ]a pair of Nines.
jumping_tree shows [ 4c, 8h ]high card Ten.
p0kermon5ter wins 1,320 chips from the side pot 1 with a pair of Nines.
p0kermon5ter wins 5,280 chips from the main pot with a pair of Nines.
easybaw19 finished in 6 place.
jumping_tree finished in 5 place and won $104 USD.


so after this hand i decided to do a little research, and found, the 2 players are from the same place, play together a lot in various games, and start and end their sessions together, for example today, according to sharkscope p0kermon5ter played continuously from 17:07, until 23:52, and jumping_tree played from 17:22 untill 23:52.

so to sum it up, they obviously know each other and try to play in lots of games together, and p0kermon5ter made a call he wouldn't normally make, in a situation where he's practically gifting jumping_tree equity

they are losing more playing together than apart ;d

true, but this is

A. not important because of sample size.

and B. not important because they play different games together than they do apart, i.e they play (or used to play) hu games etc.

Without stating anything about the actual play posted, are you actually expecting a serious discussion with a poll that has answers that come down to "kinda yes", "yes", and "hell yes"?

with the evidence posted, i think my 3 options are fine.
and you can discuss without answering the poll, for example it's not against the rules to just post saying "no i think it probably wasn't collusion"

Sorry, saw this and decided I had to comment.


First of all, seat order in hh is ******ed.

Second, FFS convert it, walls of text like that make the eyes bleed.


And so on to the hand itself. The villain who calls is virtually the same stack size as the original shover, so if they both lose to you then one of them goes probably goes out, because one of them will lose the sidepot. Either pokermonster wins that and the tourney is over, or jumping_tree wins it and pokermonster has 80 chips left, all of which get posted next hand as he will be SB.

But pokermonster sees you call, and must know you have a pretty decent hand to call the shove. He knows you're a strong favourite in the hand. If they were working as a team surely it's better that at least one of them survives with a half decent stack? Surely the best team play would be for jumping_tree to open with a minraise here, because his 84o is so terrible.

Yeah, their frequency of playing together looks iffy, but their ham fisted collusion attempt is probably still +EV for you in the long term.

good, thanks.

agreed.

no

i honestly don't know how you can argue this call is +ev for me and -ev for them as a team.

i'm close to gtd a win if i win vs J_T, when PM calls i have to beat 2 hands to cash instead of 1.

OK, look pompey you been around here for 2 years now; you should know by now that it's simply courteous to convert hands. You should be bloody thankful that anyone at all bothers to trawl through it looking like that. So ffs convert it in future and don't be such a nob saying no like that. I think the phrase you were looking for should have been "Sorry, point taken, will do next time."

As for whether it's good collusion or not, well, as I'm not a colluder, expert or otherwise, I was merely voicing my opinion about the way in which it seems they're going about it. And in the long term it seems to me that their strategy for working together is a bit meh. That they've chosen to collude at this point merely makes it obvious to any observant opponent what they're doing when they'd be much better off picking their cooperation plays with a little more care and a lot better expectation of success. Obviously, it's not such a great call for you specifically in this instance, but as with all aspects of poker, it's all about the long term, and learning and adapting based on past experiences. So, as it seems that the site in question won't do anything about them, you can use the knowledge of their teamwork and their blundering strategy to your advantage in future spots. And if you can't do that then simply avoid games in which they both register.

And as for complaining about collusion in DoNs; every 2+2er knows about it, or at least they should do. And we also know that sites differ in their views and in the actions they take in response to it. So don't whinge about its existence, or the site's reaction, because you should already have factored this into your decision to play where you do. You should merely consider collusion as part of the cost of doing business and factor it into your expected returns on the game.

GL

i chose not to convert it for a reason, you lose information if you convert.
if you don't wanna read it because it's not converted, i'm not forcing you, but again, thanks for reading and commenting.

i am avoiding their games, and yes collusion is a part of the game, i'd just prefer to have as little of it as possible.

...like what exactly..?

FWIW I don't bother looking through unconverted HHs that make sense, let alone this one that makes no sense at all

the time and date!

(i totally thought you couldnt keep in the names if you convert, but i think you can...)

how doesn't the hh make sense?

First thing I notice when I look at a converted hand is that I don't know the time and date at which it was played..

It's important to know whether villains in the hand were this year's or 2005's.

Of course we'd all prefer that, but you're playing the one format which every 2+2er knows is the most widely riven with collusion, not to mention that it's also the most conducive to it too. We also know that some sites are more strict than others when it comes to dealing with transgressors. So just suck it up instead of making lame new threads just to complain about old news.

This type of thread from someone with that many posts makes me afraid to take advice form alot of the regs around here. And collusion is collusion if you try and report it and they don't do anything about it, then leave it alone nothing is going to happen anymore. You're not going to make them change their mind by posting a crappy thread on 2p2.

You aren't whining about this if you hold up.

could be a misclick or more likely a spite call.

It could be collusion, but if it is those guys really don't have a clue what they're doing. Calling with AKo here is pretty bad though. Even if BTN is pushing 100% and BB is calling 0%, it's still -1.16% according to WIZ. With more reasonable ranges like 15% and 5% for BTN and BB respectively, it's -2.63%. Granted you are the shorty so you might be willing to take slight negative edges, but that negative? I would fold as I think you still have some fold equity, although the setup sucks because the big stacks are about to be in the blinds. I don't know, maybe it's the least -EV spot you're likely to get. I'd be interested in other people's opinion on this.

although it's obviously -ev, i don't think i can fold here, going through the blinds again without gaining chips is pretty disasterous for us, and with the way players were open shoving a lot (particularly jumping_tree) we might only get the chance to open shove utg and utg+1.

how does shoving atc in 3 hands time (utg+1) compare to calling this hand for example?

I entered 3 hands from now in WIZ (keeping the stacks the same size for simplicity) and it completely depends on whether the players to your left are donks or not. Shoving 32o from UTG + 1 is -.66% with everyone calling 5%, and is -2.35% with everyone calling 10%. Shoving an averagish hand like J7o is -.28% and -1.76%, respectively. Shoving a top 25% hand like K8s is 0.01% and -1.44%, respectively. You should get a top 25% hand in either UTG + 1 or UTG 1 - (3/4)(3/4) = 44% of the time.

So to answer your question...if the table is somewhat tight I think you're better off waiting and shoving, but if there's multiple donks then calling with AK may be better.

Attention mid stakes party players,


If you are grinding $22 - $55 games @ party i am sure you are familiar with the names strfx489 - used to be "jumpingtree" - and p0kermon5ter.

These 2 accounts are same person's -very likely- or 2 guys know eachother and playing together. There are ton of evidence of this @ their play like chipdumping eachother and stuff but the most significant evidence is they start and end their sessions same time and never play seperately. Pompeypoker already made a thread about it a while ago - Thanks to him - about it ( http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...-right-890420/ ) and i have lots of similar hands been played between them and they have excact stats and playing styles which make me believe more that they are the same person.

I already called party last week to report and pushing them since then to take action for the most obvious and and most easily noticable collusion of the poker history but they refused to take action yet where they could easily just stop them playing @ the same tables untill they fully invastigate the matter just based on the reason that they dont play a single game seperately. It realy is a big shame they see it and doing nothing. The support guy i spoke last told me that latest friday this would come to a conclusion and i hope it does.

I already stopped playing @ the same tables with them and started to warn people @ the table before the game fills.

Any party players who knows about this and/or have evidence but didnt care to report it; It is now important for the integrity and trafic of the party games you do so. Please spare a few moments to send an email or call the support to report it and spread the word so we can stop these cancer cells before they spread and kill the games.

Thanks.

Attention mid stakes party sng players,


If you are grinding $22 - $55 games @ party i am sure you are familiar with the names strfx489 - used to be "jumpingtree" - and p0kermon5ter.

These 2 accounts are same person's -very likely- or 2 guys know eachother and playing together. There are ton of evidence of this @ their play like chipdumping eachother and stuff but the most significant evidence is they start and end their sessions same time and never play seperately. Pompeypoker already made a thread about it a while ago - Thanks to him - about it ( http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...-right-890420/ ) and i have lots of similar hands been played between them and they have excact stats and playing styles which make me believe more that they are the same person.

I already called party last week to report and pushing them since then to take action for the most obvious and and most easily noticable collusion of the poker history but they refused to take action yet where they could easily just stop them playing @ the same tables untill they fully invastigate the matter just based on the reason that they dont play a single game seperately. It realy is a big shame they see it and doing nothing. The support guy i spoke last told me that latest friday this would come to a conclusion and i hope it does.

I already stopped playing @ the same tables with them and started to warn people @ the table before the game fills.

Any party players who knows about this and/or have evidence but didnt care to report it; It is now important for the integrity and trafic of the party games you do so. Please spare a few moments to send an email or call the support to report it and spread the word so we can stop these cancer cells before they spread and kill the games.

Thanks.

I'm afraid that if I state the obvious, you'll try to shoot me.

Are pokerstars and Full tilt the only sites that got any security what so ever? o_O
On every other network there are reports of botters and cheaters not being banned even though repeatedly reported.

These games are so riddled with collusion, colluders are now reporting other colluders.

easybaw19 and craig_b_12 are known colluders.