888 Poker - 50/100 Ante 10 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 13.2 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BTN: 14.25 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
SB: 10.75 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 9)
Hero (BB): 17.9 BB
UTG: 30.6 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)
UTG+1: 28.8 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
MP: 19.5 BB (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)

7 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.2 BB) Hero has 8 A

fold, fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, BTN calls 1 BB, fold, Hero ???

a) Check and see a flop?
b) Shove?
c) Standard raise?

Either min-raise(30%) or shove(55%). "This coming from a cash game player BTW". Shoving may force weaker hands to call, while min raising back in black Friday days would be raised and call would be shoved.

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Man this forum is a ghost town...

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shove>check>small raise

How soon did you raise?

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How soon?

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Meh you are still relatively deep in STT terms. Limpers are loose judging by their stats but sample size is small. I tend to check pre and evaluate from there.

Even as a favourite some donks will limp call all Broadways where you are about 40% against the off suit combos and 45% against suited combos. Small pairs you are behind. Weaker aces you are likely to chop against and I have seen some fish limp A9,AT. I would check and play flops personally. A shove is certainly chip ev but not sure about $ev

So I have one vote for shove or minraise, one vote for shove->check->raise, and two votes for check.

At least that confirms that it was a difficult spot.

I raised to 400, got one caller, and found myself in a sticky spot postflop. I ended up taking down a nice pot when I made a CB on a J98 flop and hit trip 8's on the turn, but I clearly got lucky and wasn't happy with the way I played it.

I think a shove will generate folds most of the time, and when I do get called I'm actually in decent shape against a calling range. So I think shove->check->raise.

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Yeah wondering why the announced changes have not yet been implemented to try to revive it.

P.S.: Clear Jam imo.

Openlimp/limp behind ranges are weak and u have ~14bb effective. Raising non ai, being likely called by two villains and playing A8o with SPR 1-2 oop, doesn't sound like an attractive scenario. Check is just losing value imo. Another option is to raise 1/2-3/4 of your stack and jam all missed flops in case u get flatted, depending on how whalish they are this might be better.

A true Vikings fan ehh!!!

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Is it me or does anyone else take into consideration the chance of AA-KK limping in this hand?

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Sounds like you've been in this slot and are ahead. I like this play against standard players.

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It's definitely possible but I didn't give it much consideration. This is on 888 where play tends to be pretty passive in general, so there is always lots of limping going on.

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If this is 9m I have a six figure sample of em so I kinda have a feeling for what ranges ppl usually openlimp in these. Greater Ax than A8 are usually not a huge or better: "rarely any" part of it and apart from the few pp u kinda like to get it in vs the rest and also enjoy quite of a lot of "fold-fold-receive 350bb/100". Highly doubt anyone can print the same with checking and raising some std sizing really sucks. You get flatted a lot and end up with 1-2 SPR playing oop vs up to 2 villains that will often call wider than they should (indicated by being willing to l/c pre) and get u in very problematic spots (basically any where u don't hit an A or an 8 high flop).

Ppl do that, yeah, it's a minuscule part of their range tho. For the overlimper also doubtful it's at all in his range, even most fish understand it's not a great idea to limp behind with AA/KK kinda hands.

Well that's what I'm saying, if people are leaning towards limping and calling. Odds are they would limp there 2% hands equal out there weakness.

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But you get online players like blom, isilder1 I think, that will spend whole game setting up 2-3 spots like that. Not just with 1%-2% hands too.

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Pardon? I don't understand your description of what ilsildur does and I'm pretty sure he does not play 888poker 9m tourneys either

I would worry more if people at this table have been jamming over limps a lot /automatically, if you get a timing tell off him, if it's a player who personally hasn't limped much and things like that.

Sometimes you can tell from the rhythm of the game that something like that is about to happen. 9 hands in against unknowns I wouldn't worry much - they're just as likely to be "trapping"/disguising with an A we dominate.

I think this is a standard raise. You'l rarely illicit two folds with a raise pre and it is unfortunate when you don't connect and face aggression post flop but you'r too deep to shove and flatting seems too passive with this stack size. Both opponents have a lot of non premium broadway hands, low pps and rag aces here so you have good equity against their ranges.

What size would we raise to though OOP with two limpers ahead? Do we ever raise/fold to that size.

Given antes and 2 limpers this is not too deep to shove.

I agree, even though we're a touch on the deep side the preflop pot is almost 20% of our stack and with a stabdard raise the hand will be very difficult to play postflop.

In some situations the best option is to just shove to avoid very difficult spots postflop, and I think this is one of those situations.

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OK so either live or in a tournament isn't the goal to take small pots down? Not really building up pots to loose your stack. I mean yeah if your 100% sure go ahead, but if u can take down a small pot over and over rather then 2-3 medium-huge ones and in 1-2 hours I'm golden. It's risk management, so if me going all in takes down that spot 90% of the time while getting a call from a frustrated player with a weaker hand isn't that the go-to?

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I mean it's like saying dn is better then Phil ivey. If you really want to get into that side of the coin baby!!

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If you can figure out a non-ai-non-commiting iso size that makes you more ev than jamming, I'm pretty sure high stakes regs will be interested in your postflop strat

What likely happens is you will not know what to do on 2/3 of flops if u get flatted and even if u would play it somewhat close to optimal, that might still be worse than jamming.