Venetian $600 1 Day tourney.

72 players left and 24 pay.

Average stack is ~72k. Hero has about 87k and is effective stack in this hand

Just sat down for about 2 orbits. Blinds just went up to 1500/2500/2500 4 hands ago.

MP (V) limps (Super fishy. Limps a lot and calls raises or over raises as he comes in. Saw him call a pot size bet on KQ6 board with J9o), BTN calls (solid reg), SB completes (seems to be competent), Hero looks down at AsJs in BB and 3! to 12.5k. Only MP calls.

Flop (34k) 8s6x4s

H bets 16.5k. MP thinks for 3 seconds and jams ai. Hero?!?

Even if villain has a set its really a must call getting more than 2.5:1.

This is really why I don't like creating huge pots OOP with hands like AJs. Pre-flop I would just check. I would then lead out the flop for 5k (assuming SB checks). I doubt Villain would jam there and assuming a raise to like 15k its a call. On the turn Villain might jam and assuming we missed, its a fold for me.

I would also consider just jamming pre-flop with like 27 bb's behind. Its a little bit too much for my taste, but if I am raising I am jamming.

I think the way you played it is fine and this is definitely a call. The odds you are getting are too good here.

I agree, played fine and easy call. Technically, you 2! not 3!.

Seems fine, easy call

I prolly check/jam but wtver

Pretty sure this hand goes into the x/c range it’s too good to start bluffing with and this texture is really bad for you and really good for the limper. @ 100bb it’s a pure x/c I haven’t studied these short stack spots as much but I don’t like the cbet
& vs this raise you’re in bad shape and then even vs the peel you get put in a gross spot ott where you don’t really wanna out the rest in vs his 2p + range or pair plus draw range of which he’ll have a lot

If we were playing deeper, you could x/c. That may be the solver line for deep. There is also a big pot after the 5x etc. preflop. x/c with a psb behind and a flush draw and good overcards is terrible. I don't care that the board hits villain's range. Betting or x/r to gii are both much better.

Hey guys.... sorry for the late response and thanks for the replies.

My thought process:

Two limps and a complete in SB and I look down at AsJs:

1) I think this hand is just too good not to squeeze (I said 3! by mistake in original post). Obv I wouldn't mind taking the hand down right there. I thought my raise size was chunky enough to get folds. Raise size OK oop or can I get folds for a smaller sizing?

2) Only V calls: Even bf we see the flop I know V is wide open and I prob didn't want to see random low cards that would prob favor his range over mine

3) Flop: However, once I see the flop, I feel this is prob a hand that I'm going to have to commit to, esp with this V making mistakes with inferior draws

I think need to bet here a fair amount of the time to deny V equity with two random overs and to possibly commit myself. I didn't want to x and have him jam on me and then call off the rest of my stack, ~29bb (prob wrong way to look at it) but I guess that's kinda what did happen

I don't like the x/c line with my hand and with this specific V. My x'ing opens him up to a bunch of his nonsense and puts me in weirder spot. I rather take control of the action. Wrong thinking?

4) When V jams over me: I completely take sets out of his range bc he would of come in raising, even with 44. So, now with a V like this it's a complete guessing game

Ultimately, I range him on pair+straight draw or 2p and the very unlikely smaller flush draw. So, at my worst case (2p) I'm 3x% and best case (p+sd) we're flipping with me being a slight favorite. If he happens to have a hand like 9s10s, then obv I'm a huge favorite

After considerable tanking, I call off. The board runs out Kc3d and V shows 10h4h for maximum pain. GG

Preflop could be bigger than 5xBB against 2 limpers and the SB in the BB.

You were 54% to win OTF. You have to win some of those to finish high in tournaments.

Personally I would go for a smaller size pre flop. Checking back could be an option but I don't hate a raise. Even oop I think ajs is relatively easy to play post flop. I wouldn't want to blow up the pot tho to be potentially forced out of the hand later to miss a lot of equity. You weren't deep and the spr gets awkward with your raise imo.

I'd c-bet with a smaller size as well. If v is fishy/sticky/wild I wouldn't mind keeping his range wide with a small bet. He might have looked you up with some goofy a5o/k7s etc. Even if I get raised I can still comfortably call instead of doing a big flip and having to go for the high variance route versus a not so competent player. I don't like playing blackjack with this kind of players.

As played i think you had to call. Against his range the odds are too good to fold. If it were a big dollar tourney bubble time I might fold arguing icm, but it could still be a mistake.

(I think the 12.5k was just a raise not a 3 bet.)

You can't worry about busting. If you think he will bet the low flop if checked to, then x/r. Otherwise bet/gii, with the idea of shoving the turn unimproved. You should play a strong draw strongly with this stack to pot ratio.

I actually think bet/gii and shove the turn is best. Put some pressure on the limp/caller representing an over pair after raising OOP. If you are worried about stacking off with a draw, you wasted $600.

Preflop, I would would not raise smaller OOP. It is possible to make it like 7xBB. I don't see the problem with taking it down or building the pot with the best hand. You could also consider just shoving preflop OOP for 35xBB at a 5xBB pot. It is unlikely the fishy limper or the button or SB have anything.

does anyone else think V's jam with bottom pair no draw is horrendous? OP has to call off given the price.

Vilain is a great player as we saw from his awesome limp/call preflop with T4

As to the hand, i would prefer a check/jam line, we aren’t getting a pair to fold if we bet so we can pot control by checking, if vilain checks back its fine. If he does bet we can apply max pressure by jamming.

Preflop is great. Punish the limper.

Stack sizes make turn interesting. This is a board that you are going to c/fing a lot so going for c/shove with such a strong draw is good, along with some strong overpairs for value.

Your betting range is going to be kinda small on this flop so if you bet I would choose a larger size, like 2/3rd pot to set up a cleaner shove on the turn. As played, had he just called, you would be shoving almost full pot on the turn.

It doesn't matter if he is stacking off, but if he has some weak draw that wants to peel a card or if he is a player who calls with bottom pair, you make more money. If you bet 22k into 34k then on the turn you shove 52k into 77k. Opposed to betting 16.5k into 34k and then shoving 58k into 66k

As for the V's play being horrendous.... we all know these fields are full of land mines that we have to navigate through

So, the more I've been thinking about this hand, I think my best options were to (maybe a bit results orientated):

1) Jam flop
2) x/r gii flop
3) x/if V jams flop...fold, preserve chips and wait for an even better spot. I mean I only invested another 10k with my pfr. I'll still be at ave stack and move on......maybe this is horrendous?

Tons of options
First, raise pre, sizing seems good. Rec players need to force themselves to take the initiative with stronger Ax and KQ type hands that dominate bad limp callers. We print $ by doing this.
Flop, I think you picked a poor sizing against this particular type of opponent and induced a bad player to play +EV against your exact holding.
The hand is made for 1/3 pot flop, large turn bet, repping the top of your pp range, or a 2/3 pot bet repping the mid pp part of your range - which sets up a nice PSB shove ott btw. I’m cool with either option.

‘Minefield’ opponents are destroyed by small flop large turn strat though, and I’d probably prefer to protect my small cbet range with a hand this strong. Also, if the third flush card comes on the turn giving you the nuts, approx gto strat would suggest another 1/3 pot turn bet and this type of player will turn a huuuuge portion of his range into a bluff shove.

So raise pre 1/3 flop large turn - and if he’s still there on the river with T4s take off a boot and hurl it at him

Can I ever just x/fold to jam?!?!

Nah maybe if it was close to bubble

Unless you are pretty short, you shouldn't be playing for the mincash.

You guys realize that hands as good as aa do a lot of checking here otf right

So 25 left and top 24 pay, u call the jam if you have a big stack and u would fold if u have a shortstack?

Generally, yes. If you have a big stack, the top prizes are much more important than the mincash. If you have a short stack, the mincash is a big portion of your expected $ win.

I wouldn't like bet/calling with a strong draw regardless though.

Op was saying should he check/fold to the 2x pot jam

Bet/calling is completely different

So.... is the concensus that I should always be checking this specific flop against this specific V? I should have no leads here oop?