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STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

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Old 06-14-2017, 10:16 AM   #1
Monster435
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Spade 3000 games of hyper turbo

Hi guys,

I am playing a lot of hyper turbo's STT lately, and noticed something odd in my Holdem Manager 2. Here are my chip money graphs, my winnings etc. for 9 man 3,50 and 1,50 hyper turbo STT.



The thing I find odd, is that my game chip winnings are so much higher than the All in EV. Should i worry about this, that im just running really hot? or is it normal?

Also, if you see something else, be free to post
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Old 06-15-2017, 02:24 AM   #2
SeeTheMirage
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Re: 3000 games of hyper turbo

Chip winnings are irrelevant for STT's and you'd be wasting your time if you ever looked at them again

Chip EV only looks at the equity of the hand match-up and not the equity of the actual situation

For example, going all-in with 77 vs AK is a profitable play in a vacuum and will raise your chip EV line. However, on the bubble if you call with 77 vs the chip leader's AK shove after the short stack has folded with one chip left, you're making a massive mistake but your chip EV won't show what a terrible play you've made.

Only worry about your $EV results but after only 3k games I wouldn't worry a whole lot
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:29 AM   #3
Colin252
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Re: 3000 games of hyper turbo

Chip ev is only "accurate" in sng once you get to HU.

Its likely to be also informative in the first 2/3 levels as at that point the ICM effect is relively small and its hard to win a lot of chips and lose $ev. Beyond that as SeeTheMirage points out, later when ICM is THE significant factor, it's very often the case that playing a hand will concurrently have much better chip ev, and a much worse $ev than folding.
As our friend concluded - in this situation you're mad to worry about anything other than the $ev of your play.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:20 AM   #4
Monster435
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Question Re: 3000 games of hyper turbo

Thanks for the clear replies @Colin252 and SeeTheMirage. I get it now.

Besides that the Chip Graph doesn't matter and i should only look at the actual money won graph, i only have 2 questions left.

- How come the EV is so much lower?

- And how do i tell im in a down or upswing through Holdem manager2?

Thanks
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:49 AM   #5
Colin252
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Re: 3000 games of hyper turbo

To be clear, as I think you may misunderstand what we're saying - all those graphs show is chips result and chip ev - neither are useful as neither are ICM$ev which is what you want to look at. I know thats confusing because you have the $ev stat displayed in this report, but thats only useful for cash games.

You want to look for a little trophy ICON here's a youtube vid on where to find it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXf4onjWq78

This will show both your tournament results, and your ev. From this you can determine if you are running above or below ev.
fwiw, you are running very significantly above chip ev, so I would guess you will be running pretty good over this sample
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:56 PM   #6
Rusemandingo
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Re: 3000 games of hyper turbo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin252 View Post
Chip ev is only "accurate" in sng once you get to HU.

Its likely to be also informative in the first 2/3 levels as at that point the ICM effect is relively small and its hard to win a lot of chips and lose $ev. Beyond that as SeeTheMirage points out, later when ICM is THE significant factor, it's very often the case that playing a hand will concurrently have much better chip ev, and a much worse $ev than folding.
As our friend concluded - in this situation you're mad to worry about anything other than the $ev of your play.
Yeah but winning chips earlier give you a strategic advantage over smaller stacks because of ICM pressure. The stacks you have going into the bubble where ICM pressure is great are a result of how well youve run in the early stages. If you have two players with similar 6m $ev adj winrates, and one is running way above Cev 6-5 handed while the other is running way below, the latter player most likely has a higher "real" winrate, all other factors being equal.

You can get a lot of info from Cev on how good or bad you're running that the redline isnt capable of recording.

You're right that HU is the only place without ICM, but that means it's the only place where running above or below Cev doesnt artificially affect your redline.

Cliffs- Cev criminally underrated
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:01 PM   #7
kysg
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Re: 3000 games of hyper turbo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusemandingo View Post
Yeah but winning chips earlier give you a strategic advantage over smaller stacks because of ICM pressure. The stacks you have going into the bubble where ICM pressure is great are a result of how well youve run in the early stages. If you have two players with similar 6m $ev adj winrates, and one is running way above Cev 6-5 handed while the other is running way below, the latter player most likely has a higher "real" winrate, all other factors being equal.

You can get a lot of info from Cev on how good or bad you're running that the redline isnt capable of recording.

You're right that HU is the only place without ICM, but that means it's the only place where running above or below Cev doesnt artificially affect your redline.

Cliffs- Cev criminally underrated
I'd say doubling is probably not a good move but at the micro's it can't be help, any decision where you get chips automatically leaks equity to other players and this can't be helped.
and winning chips early only helps if your smart enough not to spew them all out at the bubble...
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