$30/18: I don't get this range.. - MTT Poker Strategy - Multi Table Tournament Poker Forum

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$30/18: I don't get this range..

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01-19-2012 , 09:09 AM

jjyykk

now YugiohPro

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 9,399

Poker Stars $27.78+$2.22 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t300/t600 Blinds + t50 - 5 players - View hand 1600458
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: t8220 M = 7.15
UTG: t1060 M = 0.92
CO: t10490 M = 9.12
BTN: t4030 M = 3.50
Hero (SB): t3200 M = 2.78

Pre Flop: (t1150) Hero is SB with J

4 folds

Both Nash and SNGWiz want me to be super wide in this spot. Notice UTG's stack is only 1060. Do they want me in here because I'm pretty short as well? Seems like a disaster if BB calls me wide.

In game I fold because BB is a reg that I usually shove on a lot and he might spite call me or something pretty wide.

Nash range is 41.8% which seems absurd..

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01-19-2012 , 09:51 AM

Fantam

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,362

I had a look at this in Wiz and it seems that BB would have to call your shove over 35% of the time, before it became unprofitable for you to shove. That does seem pretty wide to me.

I get the impression that Wiz likes your shove here, because you are right on the bubble,short stacked,have a reasonable hand and hopefully should have good FE against one opponent with the small t1060 stack there.

I dont know whether the BB would spite call you wide because you had been shoving on him a lot, but if he did and lost it would hurt his stack a lot.

Anyway, your'e the coach.

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01-19-2012 , 10:30 AM

18m beast

banned

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 213

If he calls you wide then it's no longer a shove in wiz, ldo.

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01-19-2012 , 11:08 AM

Maniac81

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 398

Nash Range is 43%. Thats much tighter than Chipev, so its not superwide in my opinion.

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01-19-2012 , 11:33 AM

SkinnyStax

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,604

pretty obv spot to ignore wiz no? utg is in the worst spot imaginable for his sake.

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01-19-2012 , 11:52 AM

18m beast

banned

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 213

It's when you're dealt this the next hand that's a real annoyance. With BB committed you don't know wtf to do knowing your hand has his average hand crushed. I would probably just grit my teeth and shove this spot vs all but the dodgiest of regs.

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01-19-2012 , 12:16 PM

sng_jason

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 436

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjyykk

...Nash range is 41.8%...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac81

Nash Range is 43%...

I say the Nash range is closer to 31%... which still makes this a push, but only if you think the BB is calling less than about 31%

Last edited by sng_jason; 01-19-2012 at 12:29 PM. Reason: typo

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01-19-2012 , 12:19 PM

Maniac81

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 398

after i thought a bit about it i think that sngwiz/nash etc. ignores the fact that the Smallstack has a high Risk of busting out next hand. So the Nashranges are probably way to loose but i dont know if this is true. Cant prove it right now

If this is true then we should almost allways tighten our Ranges as a midstack when microstacks are at the table.
If we have 5k chips and the 10k stack has 8k then our Nash Range is 56%...I guess we have to be much tighter than that with the Micro Stack at the table.

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01-19-2012 , 12:44 PM

sng_jason

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 436

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac81

after i thought a bit about it i think that sngwiz/holdemresources etc. ignores the fact that the Smallstack has a high Risk of busting out next hand. So the holdemresources ranges are probably way to loose...

fyp, but otherwise, I agree 100%.

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but i dont know if this is true. Cant prove it right now...

if only there was a program that could calculate a Nash equilibrium while simulating future rounds of play... but, it would probably take some kind of super-genius to write a program like that... <cough>

Last edited by sng_jason; 01-19-2012 at 12:51 PM.

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01-19-2012 , 01:12 PM

#10

Maniac81

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 398

@sng_jason:I used your program now and have one question:Why does it say to shove 31.8% in the Table view but 34.2% in the Detail view and in the Equilibrium Tree View?
For all other players at the table the %values are the same in all Views.

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01-19-2012 , 01:30 PM

#11

Mecastyles

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,657

id shove wider then icm here

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01-19-2012 , 01:35 PM

#12

sng_jason

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 436

Maniac81,

So as to not derail this thread too much, I've answered your question over here in the SnG Solver software thread

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01-19-2012 , 01:35 PM

#13

Maniac81

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 398

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecastyles

id shove wider then icm here

You mean wider than nash? How can you shove wider than icm ?

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01-19-2012 , 06:45 PM

#14

Regret$

burnt out

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12,124

Pretty much the widest range I can imagine anyone calling you unless they are a real douchebag.

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01-19-2012 , 08:23 PM

#15

Mecastyles

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,657

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac81

You mean wider than nash? How can you shove wider than icm ?

what

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01-19-2012 , 10:32 PM

#16

CJSaunders

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 948

Make it J6s and you have a thread. I wouldn't dream of folding JTs unless BB is some kind of 67/55 fish on monkey tilt.

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01-19-2012 , 10:33 PM

#17

CJSaunders

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 948

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regret$

Pretty much the widest range I can imagine anyone calling you unless they are a real douchebag.

I'd say that this calling range can already be qualified of fairly douchey

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