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Old 03-31-2009, 02:28 PM   #1
lanyi
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The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

As I have reached a milestone in my 2+2 experience I decided I should give something back from my limited wisdom and experience. When contemplating what I could contribute I figured that since I am no master player or great theoretician of poker I would do well to stay away from any deep insightful posts, as I can imagine most of what I would have to say has already been said and probably better than I could have ever put it into words. On the other hand, this being the micros, we are constantly faced with waves (well this is LHE, so maybe “waves” is an overstatement, trickles might be more appropriate) of new posters and they are usually asking the same questions. So I tried to look back at when I first started out playing and discovering 2+2 as to what issues did I initially struggle with and could have used some guidance on early on. I recalled that every now and then we see new posters getting challenged by the more veteran ones to “put villain on a range” and “run some stoves” and in many cases the new posters aren’t really clear on what pokerstove is or how to use it. Since I couldn’t find any past posts addressing this topic I decided this could be a good topic to tackle. So now I present you with my 1K post - The n00b’s guide on what pokerstove is and how to use it to analyze hands and improve your game. Before I start I would like to thank BBB for being kind enough to review my post and give his comments and feedback (and editing some of my spelling - lol nonnativeenglishaments). Well enough chit chat, let’s get crackin


What is pokerstove

Pokerstove is an odds calculator which “facilitates equity calculation using ranges of hands, or hand distributions” (quoted from the pokerstove website). What this means is that rather than just being able to calculate how our hand matches up against specific hands (like if I have QQ what is my equity vs AK ) we can evaluate our equity vs. a range of hands (for example: if I have AK what is my equity vs. an opponent holding any pocket pair 99 and higher). Luckily for us pokerstove s/w is free and can be downloaded HERE

mod edit: here is the link to equilab, which has all the stove features but is currently available for download


How do I use pokerstove

The website includes instructions on how to use the s/w and you can see HERE a brief explanation on how to operate the s/w. I am not going to go into a detailed explanation on how to operate the s/w. The mechanics are pretty basic and you should be able to pick it up fairly quickly after playing around with it for a bit. Once you get the hang of it you will know how to operate it but that doesn’t mean you know how to use it. What’s the difference? Well, now you know how to calculate what your equity is when you hold AK and your opponent has 99+, but how exactly does that help you? How does the ability to make this calculation assist you in analyzing hands and making decisions on how to play a hand? Let’s start off with the first part – putting your opponents on a range.


Estimating a player's range

The first use for pokerstove is in helping to estimate what a player’s range might be. You hear many people asking you to assign a range on an opponent but how exactly do you go about doing this? Usually we start with looking at the opponent’s stats. I assume many of you are using tracking software (such as pokertracker or Holdem Manager) and are familiar with the basic stats such as VPIP and PFR. So when you have a 30/10 player limp in UTG what is his range at that point? This is the first stage where pokerstove can come in handy. When you push the “player button” in order to select the opponents range you come to this screen:



Here you can select a specific 2 card holding which is used for your own hand (or in case you have a superuser account for your opponent’s hand as well )

If you press the “Preflop” tab you will get to this screen:



Here you have the ability to pick a range and for each type of hand you choose the s/w includes all possible combos for all types of suits. But you don’t have to manually pick specific types of hands (i.e. AKs, AKo, AQs, etc.). In the marked area above you have a sliding bar which you can move to decide what percentage of hands the player has. Pokerstove has a rank for all the poker hands and while it is rather generic, as a default range it is still rather good. So for example, if you set the bar to 15% pokerstove will automatically choose the “top 15% of hands”



As can be seen in the pic above pokerstove deems the “top 15%” of hands as 77+, A7s+, ATo+, K9s+, KTo+, QTs+, QJo, JTs.

So let’s get back to our example from before. A 30/10 player limps UTG (we’re assuming a FR table). What’s his range? Well, his VPIP is 30 meaning he plays 30% of his hands so why not choose the top 30% of hands from pokerstove. That would give us 55+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A5o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o. That’s a starting point. BUT, 30% is an aggregated number for all positions. Assuming our opponent is somewhat positionally aware he won’t limp in with his entire range from UTG. So let’s discount it to say 15%. That would give us the same range we calculated in the example above: 77+, A7s+, ATo+, K9s+, KTo+, QTs+, QJo, JTs. But we are still not finished because the very top of the range he would probably raise UTG. Let’s say top 4.5%. Top 4.5% according to pokerstove is 99+, AJs+ and AKo. So we should discount these hands from the 15% range. So finally we are left with 77-88, A7s-ATs, ATo-AQo, K9s+, KTo+, QTs+, QJo, JTs. So we now have a preflop range on villain. But this is the range we assigned based only on villain’s actions (he limped) and his position (UTG). The more information we have the more we can narrow his range further (and discount more hands). Say 2 more players limp behind him and the BB checks (4-way pot) and the flop comes K93 rainbow. BB bets and UTG raises. At this point we can probably narrow his range even further discounting more hands. I will point out the obvious which is the more reads we have on an opponent the easier it is to narrow his range. In this example suppose we had a read that in limped pots UTG only raises top pair or better on the flop (this is a very specific read and is used to simplify the example). With this information we could narrow his range further to K9s+, KTo+.

So now we know how to build up a range for a player. How does this come into play in making decisions in the game? Well, to understand this first let’s talk a little bit about equity


Equity

Pokerstove calculates your equity given your hand vs. your opponent’s range of hands (as set by you) and given the board cards at that point (be it Preflop, flop, turn or river). These are “all-in equity values. This is not the chance that a hand will win the pot. Rather it is the fraction of the pot that a hand will win on average over many repeated trials, including split pots” (quoted from the pokerstove website). This is also referred to as “hot/cold equity” because it assumes you are seeing a showdown and no one is folding before. Now based on this definition it would seem the s/w can only be used for NL Holdem when you are trying to decide whether to call an all-in bet or not. While it’s true that it’s useful for that purpose it is not true that there are no applications for use in LHE or in non all-in decisions. Basically when faced with certain decisions on whether to raise, call or fold (especially on the river) pokerstove can help you estimate based on the range you assigned your opponent/s what’s the best course of action.


When to bet/raise for value

When your equity is higher than your relative share in the pot you have what is known as an equity edge and in this case you can (usually) bet/raise for value(*). For example: if the pot is currently 3-haned your relative share all things being equal is 33%. If you calculate your equity as being higher than 33% you can raise assuming both of your opponents call. If only 1 will call you would need to reassess your equity vs. just that opponent’s range and if it was over 50% you could still raise profitably. In these cases the size of the pot doesn’t matter. As long as you have an equity edge any bet you put in the pot is profitable as you will earn back in the long run more then what you put in. So if the pot is 3-way and I have say 40% equity that means that assuming both my opponents call my bet/raise, for every bet I put in I’m expecting to earn 40% x 3 bets = 1.20 bets back. 1.20 – 1.00 (the cost I’m investing) = 0.20 bets of EV. But you need to be careful with this because sometimes a raise/reraise by an opponent can shift the range considerably and may require a larger edge to be profitable.

(*) There are cases where you shouldn’t bet/raise even with an equity edge if you believe you will only get raised by a hand that beats you. In these cases you need a higher equity edge. I will discuss this in more detail later on.

Now let’s take a look at a few examples of hands where we have an equity edge. Note that all the examples below were taken from past threads in the forum. I just did a search for stove and these are some of the examples I came up with. I added links to the original threads next to each example should anybody be interested:


Example 1 - bet for value on the river (Link):

In this hand we have a question whether we can raise the river for value or just call.

Villain is UTG with stats of 22/4/2.2

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is CO with J J
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, UTG calls

Flop: (5.5 SB) Q Q K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls

Turn: (3.75 BB) J (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps!, Hero calls

River: (11.75 BB) 9 (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero?

A suggested range for villain in the thread (ty Xhad) is AQs, KQs, Q9s, AQo, KQo, QTo+. Note that KK and QQ were both discounted as we would expect villain to raise those preflop. If we stove this range we get 61.5% equity on the river. While this result may suggest we can raise the river we actually can’t. In this example we need more than 66% equity to make a raise profitable because if we get 3-bet we expect to lose as a 3-bet on the river would narrow villain’s range further to practically everything that beats us (we would still call as the pot would be too big to fold). So we are looking to win 1 more bet but risk losing 2 more when behind. With a 66% equity edge we win 1BB 66% of the time for 0.66B EV and lose 2BB 33% for -0.66EV at which point we are neutral. So based on the range presented above this spot is a call. If we could narrow villain’s range further the outcome would be different. In this post another poster suggests a much more narrow range for our UTG limper of KQo, KQs, ATo-AQo, ATs-AQs. Against this range we have 82% equity and have a clear raise. As you can see, whatever range you choose can impact the decision in either direction.

Example 2 – Is TPTK always a raising hand (Link):

In this hand our hero played passively postflop and questions whether he should have played more aggressively.

No reads this time on villain

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with K A
3 folds, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP1 caps!, Hero calls

Flop: (9 SB) T K Q (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls

Turn: (5.5 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls

River: (7.5 BB) A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls

All we know is villain capped preflop. If we give him a “generic” preflop capping range of TT+, AQs+, KQs, AKo and stove that vs. our hand on each street separately we get the following results:

On the flop we have 43% equity

On the turn we have 45% equity

On the river we have 24% equity

Based on this range the calldown was correct as we do not have an equity edge on any street despite flopping TPTK. Also note that on the river our equity plummets despite improving to top 2 pair. Even if we take out TT and KQ we still don’t get to 50%. Notice though that at no point in the hand do we need to fold as we have enough equity on every street to call as the pot is big enough and laying enough odds.

Example 3 – facing a donker (Link):

This is a fairly common situation in the microstakes – facing a donk on the flop.

Villain here is unknown so we again have no reads.

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BTN with J A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls

Flop: (7.5 SB) T A 4 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero ?

So can we raise here for value (and usually that’s what we are itching to do vs. the donkers) or do we need to call down? Moonorb was kind to suggest a donking range of 99+, A5s+, KdQd, Kdjd, QdJd, ATo+ against which we have 53% equity. This is a rather generous range and despite having a thin edge a raise in questionable. As Moonorb points out in the thread if we simply eliminate from the donking range KK-JJ, 99 and leave only Ax diamond flush draws our equity plummets to 36%. So despite flopping TPGK and itching to punish the donker we really don’t have enough equity to raise. In fact, we should have probably folded preflop. Remember we are facing an EP raise here. As was pointed out in the thread if you take a standard PF raising range for EP (remember we don’t have reads so you have to go with something generic), let’ say top 10% from pokerstove which gives us 88+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo+ we have only 43% equity vs. this range. It’s true that once villain just calls the 3-bet we can discount the top of that range but remember we didn’t know that when we were electing to 3-bet

Well, I hope the examples above were helpful in pointing out examples of evaluating if we have equity to raise or not. But in all these situations folding was never really an option (with the exception of the 3rd example but only Preflop). So now let’s move to the more marginal decisions.


When to call because we have the odds or fold when we don’t

I assume everyone is familiar with counting outs to improve vs. the pot odds (immediate or implied). In these cases where we are pretty sure we are behind and need to improve to win you don’t need pokerstove to tell you whether to call or not. You just compare your pot odds to your odds to hit your draw and make a decision whether to call or fold. But what about when you are just trying to figure out if you should call down with your current hand unimproved? Or when all you have on the river is Ace high and the pot is laying you 11 to 1 on a call? We always see the questions “am I good here often enough to call?” This is where pokerstove can assist.

When making a call/fold decision we assume we do not have an equity edge (otherwise we would raise remember?) and need to look at our equity vs. our pot odds. If our equity is higher than the odds the pot is laying us we can call. So for example if you are facing a river bet in a 9BB pot Heads up (so the pot is laying you 9 to 1 on a call) if your equity is higher than 10% you can profitably call. Let’s say we have calculated we have 20% equity. So we pay 1BB and we on average earn 9BB x 20% = 1.8BB. 1.8-1.0 = 0.8BB EV on calling the river bet.

Now let’s take a look at a few examples:

Example 4 – 1 OC on a dry flop (Link):

Here we have a steal situation where we got 3-bet by the BB and have a debate if we can call the flop c-bet.

Villain is (again) unknown.

Preflop: Hero is CO with QA
5 folds, Hero (poster) raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero (poster) calls

Flop: (6.5 SB) 5k9 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero?

If we put BB’s 3-bet range preflop at about top 15% (thanks Moonorb once again) we get 22+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs+, ATo+, KJo+. Against this range we have about 35% equity on the flop. Calling down UI would costs us 2.5BB and we stand to win 5.75BB so we are getting 2.3 to 1 which means we are a bit less then EV neutral here. However this assumes villain will 3-barrel UI to the river with air which is a bit of a stretch. Usually you can expect him to give up by the river so you may actually win less when ahead and lose more when behind (known as reverse implied odds or “RIO”) calling down with A high UI. Based on this analysis we do not have enough equity to justify a call down and should fold. There were counter arguments made in the post in favor of peeling the flop but I’ll leave that for those interested to look up in the original thread.

Example 5 – Calling the river with Ace high (Link):

Here we have a classic decision about calling a river bet with Ace high vs. an aggressive opponent.

Villain is laggy running at 35/25/2.2 over ~ 200 hands and is described as someone who likes to bluff

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG with A K
Hero raises, 2 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls

putting him on TT+, AJs+, KQs, AJo, i could cap, decide just to call and play from flop on...

Flop: (7 SB) 3 4 7 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls

i estimate i have 4-5 outs for TP + bdfd

Turn: (4.5 BB) 5 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls

still drawing to my TPTK + got my 2nd nut FD

River: (6.5 BB) 8 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero?

The fact that the hero in this hand didn’t cap PF, particularly against an opponent tagged as being laggy is critiqued in the thread but I want to focus on the river decision. Pot is laying 7.5 to 1 on a call and we have the “nut no-pair hand”. Do we call? If we assume villains 3-bet range preflop is ~ 13% (roughly half of his PFR range – thanks to Bozlax for the range) we get 77+, A8s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs+, ATo+, KJo+ and since villain is described as being laggy we can assume he will 3-barrel his entire range here HU. Our equity vs. this range on the river is just under 61% so we have a clear call. Let me just emphasize that despite having over 50% equity here this is in no way a raise because we don’t expect to get called by anything we beat (there are rare cases where you can value-bet A high on the river when you are in the betting lead but value raising Ace high is not something you need to be looking at).

Example 6 – TP on a dry flop meets resistance (Link):

I will conclude with an example of a hand I posted which I came about when searching for examples. This if from when I first started playing 6-max.

Villain is on the BTN and has played ~ 20 hands so far. VPIP is quite high and he is relatively passive PF (open limping and cold calling a lot). Postflop I saw him call down with J7o on a 7564Q board vs. PF aggressor c-bets and bet out with 53o on 845 flop in a limped pot.

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with A 8
UTG calls, Hero raises, BTN calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls

Flop: (8.4 SB) 6 A 9 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BTN 3-bets, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero?

I initially ran a stove giving my villain a range of TT-99 (I assume he would have 3-bet PF JJ+),66, A2o+, A2s+, 87s, 87o (maybe 3-betting an OESD). Vs. this range I have about 46% equity. With the pot at 14.4SB I am getting about 3.7 to 1 on a call down (assuming villain bets to the river) so this is a clear call down. As was pointed out to me in the thread my range for what seems like a passive opponent was too wide for a 3-bet on this flop. A more conservative range was suggested (ty Absolution) including AJs+, A9s, A6s, 96s, 87s, AJo+, A9o, A6o. Against this range my equity plummets to 20%. This makes a call down just about breakeven.


Well I hope this thread has helped you understand a little more what running stoves is all about. Obviously there is much more to this subject than what I presented (we didn’t even begin to tackle running stoves in multi-way pots) but this should get you started in the right direction.

Before I finish here is a bonus post by fritos with some heated debate and many stoves run throughout the post in support of different lines. For the truly degenerates.

As a final note I would like to emphasize that using pokerstove should be simply another tool in your arsenal for analyzing hands and situations you face while playing poker. By no means should pokerstove be viewed as the only or ultimate tool in figuring out what the best course of action is in a particular hand. Pokerstove is intended to be a tool that supports a decision you should be able to reach on your own rather then a tool which decides what to do for you. As you become more proficient and your game progresses you will find that you will be able to reach the same conclusions on your own (kind of like counting outs is initially more mechanic for most beginners and slowly becomes more intuitive).


Best of luck


lanyi

Last edited by DougL; 02-26-2014 at 02:31 PM. Reason: this is linked in the library, but the stove link is dead
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:44 PM   #2
Duff86
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

1rd

NH Lanyi. Congrats on 1K
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:53 PM   #3
Richie(UK)
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

2st.

Excellent post.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:15 PM   #4
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Sticky imo

nh
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:16 PM   #5
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

wow, nh sir
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:00 PM   #6
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Very nice post and congrats...

Digest and Micros Wiki addition, LDO.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:05 PM   #7
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

HELP please. I'm new.. I would appreciate some help!

"Example 2 – Is TPTK always a raising hand (Link):

In this hand our hero played passively postflop and questions whether he should have played more aggressively.

No reads this time on villain

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with K A
3 folds, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP1 caps!, Hero calls

Flop: (9 SB) T K Q (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls

Turn: (5.5 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls

River: (7.5 BB) A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls

All we know is villain capped preflop. If we give him a “generic” preflop capping range of TT+, AQs+, KQs, AKo and stove that vs. our hand on each street separately we get the following results:

On the flop we have 43% equity

On the turn we have 45% equity

On the river we have 24% equity

Based on this range the calldown was correct as we do not have an equity edge on any street despite flopping TPTK. Also note that on the river our equity plummets despite improving to top 2 pair. Even if we take out TT and KQ we still don’t get to 50%. Notice though that at no point in the hand do we need to fold as we have enough equity on every street to call as the pot is big enough and laying enough odds."

-- how do we know that we have enough equity on every street? I don't even know what the villain is betting :P sorry, i'm really new to the math of this stuff. Equity still baffles me.

"If we put BB’s 3-bet range preflop at about top 15% (thanks Moonorb once again) we get 22+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs+, ATo+, KJo+. Against this range we have about 35% equity on the flop. Calling down UI would costs us 2.5BB and we stand to win 5.75BB so we are getting 2.3 to 1 which means we are a bit less then EV neutral here. However this assumes villain will 3-barrel UI to the river with air which is a bit of a stretch. Usually you can expect him to give up by the river so you may actually win less when ahead and lose more when behind (known as reverse implied odds or “RIO”) calling down with A high UI. Based on this analysis we do not have enough equity to justify a call down and should fold. There were counter arguments made in the post in favor of peeling the flop but I’ll leave that for those interested to look up in the original thread."

How do we know calling down UI (what does UI mean lol) would cost is 2.5bb and we win 5.75bb if we win?

Thank you, sorry for being noob.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:06 PM   #8
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Also, does this have any help on HU Pot Limit Holdem?
heh.
ty!
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:27 PM   #9
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCadiz View Post
Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with K A
3 folds, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP1 caps!, Hero calls

Flop: (9 SB) T K Q (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls

Turn: (5.5 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls

River: (7.5 BB) A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls

All we know is villain capped preflop. If we give him a “generic” preflop capping range of TT+, AQs+, KQs, AKo and stove that vs. our hand on each street separately we get the following results:

On the flop we have 43% equity

On the turn we have 45% equity

On the river we have 24% equity

-- how do we know that we have enough equity on every street? I don't even know what the villain is betting :P sorry, i'm really new to the math of this stuff. Equity still baffles me.
On the flop, the pot is 9SB and we have 43% equity. Villain bets making it 10 SB so we're getting 10:1 on our call. We "own" (our equity stake) 43% of that pot or 4.3SB. Since our equity stake > the cost to call, the call is correct. We're risking 1SB to win "our" 4.3SB.

On the river, the pot is 8.5BB when it gets to us, but our equity is down to only 24%. 24% x 8.5BB = 2.04BB. Since our equity is still > the cost to call, we should call. We're risking 1BB to win "our" 2.04BB.

Other regs, if I've messed this up somehow, please correct me...

Quote:
Flop: (6.5 SB) 5k9 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero?

How do we know calling down UI (what does UI mean lol) would cost is 2.5bb and we win 5.75bb if we win?

Thank you, sorry for being noob.
UI = unimproved.

Here, the pot is 6.5SB (3.25BB) and BB bets making it 7.5SB (3.75BB). The assumption is that he will also bet the turn and river making it 5.75BB total (not including our $). To get to showdown, we have to call the flop bet (1SB) and the turn and river bets (2BB) for a total of 2.5BB. So we're risking 2.5BB to win 5.75BB.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:52 PM   #10
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
On the flop, the pot is 9SB and we have 43% equity. Villain bets making it 10 SB so we're getting 10:1 on our call. We "own" (our equity stake) 43% of that pot or 4.3SB. Since our equity stake > the cost to call, the call is correct. We're risking 1SB to win "our" 4.3SB.

On the river, the pot is 8.5BB when it gets to us, but our equity is down to only 24%. 24% x 8.5BB = 2.04BB. Since our equity is still > the cost to call, we should call. We're risking 1BB to win "our" 2.04BB.

Other regs, if I've messed this up somehow, please correct me...
I don't understand how we are getting 10:1 on our call, because 9SB(pot) + 10SB = 19SB..
and wouldn't 10sb be 5 bb? i don't get how and why you guys use these terms.. BB = big bet right? meaning, the big blind? SB meaning Small Bet/Small blind? Sorry. Like I said i'm really new to this whole statistical analysis stuff =P


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
UI = unimproved.

Here, the pot is 6.5SB (3.25BB) and BB bets making it 7.5SB (3.75BB). The assumption is that he will also bet the turn and river making it 5.75BB total (not including our $). To get to showdown, we have to call the flop bet (1SB) and the turn and river bets (2BB) for a total of 2.5BB. So we're risking 2.5BB to win 5.75BB.
confused.

Thanks for the help though guys, I really appreciate it.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:55 PM   #11
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Lanyi, I'm afraid we've reviewed your post count and found that due to a statistical error your post count is actually 999, not 1K. Thus, although extremely useful, this does not qualify as your 1K post. Please generate a similar quality post for use as your 1K.

kthxbai.

(wishing you had posted this tomorrow.)

Seriously, very nice.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:12 PM   #12
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Awesome thread!!
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:03 PM   #13
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCadiz View Post
I don't understand how we are getting 10:1 on our call, because 9SB(pot) + 10SB = 19SB... and wouldn't 10sb be 5 bb? i don't get how and why you guys use these terms.. BB = big bet right? meaning, the big blind? SB meaning Small Bet/Small blind? Sorry. Like I said i'm really new to this whole statistical analysis stuff =P
The pot is 9 SB Preflop, and Villain's flop bet of 1 SB makes it a total of 10 SB. If you're playing 1/2, a SB is $1, and a BB is $2. BB equals Big Bet, not Big Blind.

Quote:
confused.

Thanks for the help though guys, I really appreciate it.
I'm hoping this doesn't sound like a dick move, because I really don't intend it to be, but I would suggest bookmarking this thread and coming back in ~100 posts or so. In the meantime, read and grunch other threads, post some hands you have questions on, read SSHE (if you haven't already), etc.

You'll get a lot more out of this thread at that time than trying to force understanding now. Build the foundation, IMO.

Edit to add: If this is someone's gimmick leveling me, well, so be it.
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:10 AM   #14
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCadiz View Post
Also, does this have any help on HU Pot Limit Holdem?
heh.
ty!
no, we're a limit holdem forum
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:10 AM   #15
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

lanyi, awesome post imo. nice work and thanks!
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:25 AM   #16
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

+100000
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:53 AM   #17
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

nihan sir

I'm glad you mentioned that Poker Stove produces hot and cold equity numbers. While it is an extremely useful tool it is also critical to remember that relying too much on hot and cold equity in certain circumstances can lead an analysis to incorrect conclusions.
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:15 AM   #18
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrigamiSensei View Post
nihan sir

I'm glad you mentioned that Poker Stove produces hot and cold equity numbers. While it is an extremely useful tool it is also critical to remember that relying too much on hot and cold equity in certain circumstances can lead an analysis to incorrect conclusions.
I used to play against you Origami at UB or FTP, can't remember for sure which one a couple years ago, but I remember I couldn't run over you. You were very good at showdown and picked off every bluff I pitched. You're a very wise savvy player...respect! A true 2P2 player, you have excellent concept of equity and on that subject, I suggest everyone listen hard to you when you speak Stove.

Quebob
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:35 AM   #19
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Thanks for the kind words, QB.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:22 AM   #20
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

thanks for the post, much appreciated.
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:20 AM   #21
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

great post my friend,

RESPECT!

still waiting for the Hebrew version...lol

Last edited by merryber; 04-02-2009 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:36 AM   #22
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Big thanks to you lanyi! Great post. I'm sure I'm not the only one who found it extremely useful.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:19 AM   #23
lanyi
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by merryber View Post
great post my friend,

RESPECT!

still waiting for the Hebrew version...lol
Yesh Kavod?

I would have to be really bored to bother and put in the time to translate this just for the benefit of the yahoos in our little IL forum. This material would be lost on the majority of them and the few who would benefit are members of 2+2 anyway.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:03 AM   #24
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

awesome thread indeed
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:58 PM   #25
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Re: The N00b's guide to using pokerstove (1K post - tl;dr)

My first practical experience with the Stove for me personally was in HeadsUP play. Wow did that J9 off suit start looking good LOL.
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