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Old 11-28-2008, 08:15 AM   #1
neeeel
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6 max strategy questions

Having moved to 6 max recently I have some questions

Because the hand will more often be 3 handed or even HU, do you donk more with a pair, or especially with a very good hand. I guess it is less dangerous to give free cards when theres few players, but you will also win less if you do win, having checked to the preflop raiser.
But then if you donk, you are saying that you have a hand, and therefore they might fold anyway. Is this another "it depends" answer, and it depends on reads, although if they fold, ur not getting reads anyway. ( well, your getting a read that they fold to a donk i supose).

Is it good to get to showdown often against 1 or 2 players? I am having difficulty picking my spots to call down.

When would you raise bottom or mid pair on the flop? never?

Do you cold call more in 6 max? with what sort of hands?

thanks
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Old 11-28-2008, 08:46 AM   #2
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel View Post
Having moved to 6 max recently I have some questions

Because the hand will more often be 3 handed or even HU, do you donk more with a pair, or especially with a very good hand. I guess it is less dangerous to give free cards when theres few players, but you will also win less if you do win, having checked to the preflop raiser.
But then if you donk, you are saying that you have a hand, and therefore they might fold anyway. Is this another "it depends" answer, and it depends on reads, although if they fold, ur not getting reads anyway. ( well, your getting a read that they fold to a donk i supose).

Is it good to get to showdown often against 1 or 2 players? I am having difficulty picking my spots to call down.

When would you raise bottom or mid pair on the flop? never?

Do you cold call more in 6 max? with what sort of hands?

thanks
Neeeel here are some vintage 6 max posts. If you read, practice, and reread these posts you will learn what you want to know.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...rt=1&PHPSESSID=


https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=2913856

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...rt=1&PHPSESSID=


https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post3239210

Courtesy of their authors of course and Aaron W for having included them in his Micro limits library, and finally Bella, for having included Aaron's Micro Limits Library in her digest.

These are old posts but very helpful and informative. They provide direction to answer the questions you are asking. The library is yours for the using. Just go to the digest and clink the link to the library.
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Old 11-28-2008, 09:10 AM   #3
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

cool thanks bona, I have tried using the search before but never found what i wanted, this looks perfect tho, thanks
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Old 11-28-2008, 01:18 PM   #4
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

I'm going to try to be helpful in a general kinda way

Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel View Post
Having moved to 6 max recently I have some questions

Because the hand will more often be 3 handed or even HU, do you donk more with a pair, or especially with a very good hand. I guess it is less dangerous to give free cards when theres few players, but you will also win less if you do win, having checked to the preflop raiser.
You're a little murky here. First you say "donk with a pair" then "especially with a very good hand".

Donking with bottom pair is probably a leak (especially with no kicker), if you have a good kicker you're more likely to get a extra bet when you make two pair to someones overcards.


Donking with a "very good hand" is value!they can't call if you don't bet!( and bad players love to call)

"Giving free cards" is always a disaster!

Quote:
But then if you donk, you are saying that you have a hand, and therefore they might fold anyway. Is this another "it depends" answer, and it depends on reads, although if they fold, ur not getting reads anyway. ( well, your getting a read that they fold to a donk i supose).
See above.
In general...donking into a preflop raiser is bad.

Quote:
Is it good to get to showdown often against 1 or 2 players? I am having difficulty picking my spots to call down.
I doubt anyone can answer this one.

Quote:
When would you raise bottom or mid pair on the flop? never?
Raising bottom pair will mostly likely be spew.
Just play ABC until you have notes and stats on players.

Quote:
Do you cold call more in 6 max? with what sort of hands?
thanks
Forget about cold calling until you get acquainted with 6 max,work on your blind defense instead.

I didn't look at Bonas links but i'll add this one which has many links to the old forum archive.
http://www.beat6max.com/
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Old 11-28-2008, 01:34 PM   #5
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Talk about a timely post. I've just started playing 6-max and have been fairly successful so far (only about 1000 hands but 10BB/hr). I'm finding my selectively aggressive style works well w/ the game.

It's funny that you mentioned donking the pf raiser. It happens to me a lot in 6-max and each time I'm reminded of Boz's picture of "I haz top pair and don't know what to do with it"

More advice on the subject is always appreciated, so thanks for the links.
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:09 PM   #6
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Generally the term "donking" is betting into a preflop raiser.
Unless you have a very specific reason to do this (i.e. almost never), it is a bad idea. As an ABC play don't donk! Betting or c/r with a pair (even bottom) or a flush draw is standard in aggressive 6max games. The higher the stakes the more liberal the c/r'es.
C/r on a dry board (K72r) as a bluff is a very standard play at 5/T+

Worrying about giving free cards is much less important HU than multiway. It is also less important in small pots. Don't worry so much about "protecting your hand", but don't tilt when they suck out on you. The joy is that you will suck out on them, too.

Going to SD more often is also normal in 6max games. But make sure to handread. Don't just blindly go to SD, because you have A-high... Most of these issues are resolved by playing and asking/answering a lot of hand posts. When to SD your 4th-5th pair and how are very opponent dependent questions, for example.

If you are a DC member, "The Price is Right" is an excellent beginner video series to 6max.
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:09 PM   #7
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamnar View Post
Talk about a timely post. I've just started playing 6-max and have been fairly successful so far (only about 1000 hands but 10BB/hr). I'm finding my selectively aggressive style works well w/ the game.

It's funny that you mentioned donking the pf raiser. It happens to me a lot in 6-max and each time I'm reminded of Boz's picture of "I haz top pair and don't know what to do with it"

More advice on the subject is always appreciated, so thanks for the links.

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Old 11-28-2008, 05:23 PM   #8
neeeel
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

thanks for all the responses.
I practically never donk, except sometimes when I am sure the person to my right will raise and I can trap all the people in between, I just asked because a hell of a lot of donking goes on at 6 max, and wondered if it was some sort of standard play or something, glad to see its just as bad at 6 max as at full ring.
VDownSwingV you say that its good to donk with a very good hand, but not with a mediocre or poor hand?
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:02 PM   #9
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel View Post
thanks for all the responses.
I practically never donk, except sometimes when I am sure the person to my right will raise and I can trap all the people in between, I just asked because a hell of a lot of donking goes on at 6 max, and wondered if it was some sort of standard play or something, glad to see its just as bad at 6 max as at full ring.
VDownSwingV you say that its good to donk with a very good hand, but not with a mediocre or poor hand?
Please correct me if I'm wrong to do so here, but the only time I ever donk, is if I'm value-donking. I find that otherwise you're giving away the fact that you hit top pair.

IE: I hold A7s on the BB and call a PFR w/ 2 other callers. The flop gives me the nut flush draw and I know the original aggressor will at least call so I value-donk.

If this is the wrong play at the very least I have coined the term "value-donking"
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:31 PM   #10
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel View Post
thanks for all the responses.
I practically never donk, except sometimes when I am sure the person to my right will raise and I can trap all the people in between, I just asked because a hell of a lot of donking goes on at 6 max, and wondered if it was some sort of standard play or something, glad to see its just as bad at 6 max as at full ring.
VDownSwingV you say that its good to donk with a very good hand, but not with a mediocre or poor hand?
I don't think there is a rule for donking player when to donk. They all have their reasons. And getting to know those reasons can give a ton of information. For example I found out a particular opponent always donks big draws on the flop.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:48 PM   #11
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamnar View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong to do so here, but the only time I ever donk, is if I'm value-donking. I find that otherwise you're giving away the fact that you hit top pair.

IE: I hold A7s on the BB and call a PFR w/ 2 other callers. The flop gives me the nut flush draw and I know the original aggressor will at least call so I value-donk.

If this is the wrong play at the very least I have coined the term "value-donking"
a donk with a lipstick is still a donk
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:08 PM   #12
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

OP would benefit greatly from joining a coaching site, IMO
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:22 PM   #13
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel View Post
thanks for all the responses.
I practically never donk, except sometimes when I am sure the person to my right will raise and I can trap all the people in between, I just asked because a hell of a lot of donking goes on at 6 max, and wondered if it was some sort of standard play or something, glad to see its just as bad at 6 max as at full ring.
VDownSwingV you say that its good to donk with a very good hand, but not with a mediocre or poor hand?
Define "good hand"

I donk into a preflop raiser when i don't mind being raised or when a turn/river
card may kill the action.
suppose i hold KT
flop comes 5 8 10
i would donk into the preflop raiser because any over pair will likely raise and even against AA your're a very slight dog.

same holecards
flop comes 5 8 10
I would usually c/r the flop(player dependent)
turn -depends on his flop action whether i want to lead (and the suit )
if i do lead and get raised its a pretty easy b/f for me.

imo, c/r ing the first hand is showing to much strength and a decent player can b/f to another or 10, but if they invest enough on the flop(3 bet) they get stubborn and call down.

btw:trapping people in between doesn't happen as often @ 6max,it's almost always >3 players to the turn above the nano limits.

all my opinions and YMMV
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #14
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Having succes in 6max is forgetting about protection and getting good at bet, raise, pray.
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Old 11-28-2008, 11:41 PM   #15
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel View Post
do you donk more with a pair, or especially with a very good hand.
A general answer to your general question: NO.

When OOP, you should use c/r as your default line. Use it for value and use it for bluffing (though there are other bluffing lines). They are c-betting about always, so the non-goofball play is to c/r.

Quote:
Is it good to get to showdown often against 1 or 2 players? I am having difficulty picking my spots to call down.
You're calling down more, much more. It depends on your opponents.

Quote:
When would you raise bottom or mid pair on the flop? never?
Cerainly not "never". You'd do it when your bottom or mid pair stands to be the best hand against his range.

Quote:
Do you cold call more in 6 max? with what sort of hands?
No. I'd cold call a lot only if I hated money.

I would 3 bet a lot more in 6m. I'd do it with hands that are favorites versus their raising range. I'd also do it in the SB to drive out the BB and play in a HU pot, when I wanted that to occur.
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Old 11-29-2008, 01:13 AM   #16
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDownSwingV View Post
Define "good hand"

I donk into a preflop raiser when i don't mind being raised or when a turn/river
card may kill the action.
suppose i hold KT
flop comes 5 8 10
i would donk into the preflop raiser because any over pair will likely raise and even against AA your're a very slight dog.

same holecards
flop comes 5 8 10
I would usually c/r the flop(player dependent)
turn -depends on his flop action whether i want to lead (and the suit )
if i do lead and get raised its a pretty easy b/f for me.

imo, c/r ing the first hand is showing to much strength and a decent player can b/f to another or 10, but if they invest enough on the flop(3 bet) they get stubborn and call down.

btw:trapping people in between doesn't happen as often @ 6max,it's almost always >3 players to the turn above the nano limits.

all my opinions and YMMV
By only donking when you have a huge hand, you're turning it face up when you do so. If you're donking when you have top pair and a monster draw, you also need to be donking some other hands like middle pair, pairs w/o draws, pure bluffs, etc. or else you become way too easy to read.

Also, the examples you gave are pretty flawed imo. You should be c/r the first hand all day for the same reasons you should be c/r the second flop: because your opponents will put you on a draw ALWAYS and be calling down with ace high. Whether or not you have the draw is irrelevant, you have top pair with a good kicker. You say overpairs will always raise you, which isn't necessarily true as many of them will wait until the turn and if the club hits then, boom, there goes your action. Also, the same overpairs that will raise your donk will also 3bet your c/r most of the time.

Basically, the TLDR version is work on balancing your ranges and your actions, as once you move up they'll be very easily exploited.
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Old 11-29-2008, 01:22 AM   #17
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Re: 6 max strategy questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulk View Post
I don't think there is a rule for donking player when to donk. They all have their reasons. And getting to know those reasons can give a ton of information. For example I found out a particular opponent always donks big draws on the flop.
haha.....i tried to give a simple example for donking..sorry i'm not creative
my earlier post contained a link to a page with around 20+ links about 6 max games/play.

If my attempts don't live up to your standards?
Feel free to step up!
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