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Old 06-24-2008, 02:23 PM   #351
ghostbeef
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

Someone should install a vending machine into OPs bar just to point out the job can be performed by an inanimate object.

Who knows, maybe it wouldn't catch on, like the self-checkout cashier at grocery stores.
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Old 06-24-2008, 03:08 PM   #352
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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AlexM,

You should give multi-quoting a test drive homey, you just might like it. I know we will.

This goes for you too davino
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:38 PM   #353
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

I think your restaurant is the one with the issues for charging $3 for chips and salsa.

Last edited by TonyDanza; 06-24-2008 at 04:39 PM. Reason: the word cheap has a double meaning
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:12 PM   #354
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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Who the **** told Davino about OOT, and why isn't he banned yet?

So true. I was wondering the same thing when I saw his first post here this morning. LOl
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:27 PM   #355
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
That isn't true. I have never stayed at either MGM or IP but I travel a lot and have stayed at hotels covering the entire price range. Cheap hotels are disgusting. You still have to take a shower every day. A nicer bathroom that is not gross is very important. Better bedding. A better bed in most cases. Staff that threats you better. Not to mention just the feeling. You walk though a hotel that is fresh, taken care of, clean carpets, etc you feel good about yourself. You walk though a cheap hotel and it is just depressing.

Also your fellow guests are just different. Less children alone makes staying at an upmarket hotel worth the extra money.
yah you're right. i've found that you generally have to go significantly more upscale to notice a huge different from a decentish hotel, but i suppose if the other hotel is like $170 normally or w/e it's gonna be significantly nicer.

I think for $100 I agree with you now, but I think his friend has a reasonable argument at like $120-130.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:46 PM   #356
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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KJS you are a pretty good dude and it is life tilting me that you would have Henry's back here. The guy is a raging douche.
Pretty good? I guess it is already hurting my rep.

KJS
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:08 PM   #357
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

Grunching here...

Bartending is a pretty sweet gig. For every guy leaving a 50 cent tip, there are 10 that over tip. I manage a bar (part time) and guys like the OP are standard.

Complaining about a .50 cent tip makes you a bigger cheapskate than the people you're calling cheap.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:39 PM   #358
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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Originally Posted by AlexM View Post
How is "not getting fired" for incentive?
Then you only work just hard enough not to get fired. There is no extra incentive to excel.

Same reason why companies give performance based pay on things.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:55 PM   #359
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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Then you only work just hard enough not to get fired. There is no extra incentive to excel.

Same reason why companies give performance based pay on things.
Yeah, and lots of companies don't, because when you set a big chunk of compensation based on performance people try to game the system and change their performance to maximize that bonus, oftentimes at the expense of the good of the business. For example, spitting in someone's salad because they only tipped 14% on a beer. That beer is sold at what, a 250% markup?
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:05 AM   #360
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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Yeah, and lots of companies don't, because when you set a big chunk of compensation based on performance people try to game the system and change their performance to maximize that bonus, oftentimes at the expense of the good of the business. For example, spitting in someone's salad because they only tipped 14% on a beer. That beer is sold at what, a 250% markup?
Of course its not perfect. But you can't deny that people are motivated to try to maximize their earnings. When you rely on tips, you have an extra incentive to do a good job. The threat of "not getting fired" only works when the employer has extremely high standards, a replacement job of equal value isn't easy to find, and its easy to bring in a replacement. While some people may be motivated by pride alone, even those people can work even harder when a few bucks are on the line.

You are missing the point- that in places where tips are a major parts of peoples incomes, they tend to provide better service than if there was not tips. Look at the Foxwoods tip-pooling threads, where the dealers all suck ass because there is no incentive to do a lot of hands or deal well vs. other places where the dealers keep their own tips.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:28 AM   #361
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

Sounds like aspergers.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:05 PM   #362
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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Sounds like aspergers.
This is the new try hitting her. I called it.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:27 PM   #363
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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This is the new try hitting her. I called it.
As long as my rage gets credit for starting it I highly encourage this.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:18 PM   #364
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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Originally Posted by FlyWf View Post
Yeah, and lots of companies don't, because when you set a big chunk of compensation based on performance people try to game the system and change their performance to maximize that bonus, oftentimes at the expense of the good of the business. For example, spitting in someone's salad because they only tipped 14% on a beer. That beer is sold at what, a 250% markup?


imo
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:50 PM   #365
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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imo
Why does it have a Goatse on the cover?
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Old 06-25-2008, 02:00 PM   #366
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

Since this thread has already been hijacked I'll chime in. I've been in the service industry for 25+ years and few things annoy me more than waitresses or bartenders complaining about crappy tips. They may get a $3 tip on a $35 tab but they will also get a $10 tip on a $25 tab. It all evens out in the end but all I ever hear about are the 'cheapskates'. So if a guy leaves me 50 cents on a $3.50 beer I say "thank you" and go about my business.

As for the reasons for tipping the bartender when all he did was open your beer:
1) He will remember you the next time he sees you waiting for a beer and you can expect prompt service. If there are 3 people waiting for a drink and 2 are known tippers and 1 is not guess who is getting served last?
2) If you are having a mixed drink and are tipping well you can expect a stronger pour (if that is what you want).
3) Depending upon the policy of the bar you are in a good tip can result in getting a drink or beer on the house. If you are not tipping I can guarantee you will NOT be getting anything comped. There is a regular who comes in my place every day. He NEVER left a tip. I NEVER bought him a drink. Just recently he started leaving a tip. Usually only $1 but at least it is something. He now gets an occasional drink on me. Tipping can be + EV.

You're not tipping because the bartender opened a beer, you're establishing a relationship. You take care of us, we'll take care of you.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:29 PM   #367
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

SOME PEOPLE HAVE VERY LITTLE MONEY!!!!
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:56 PM   #368
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

another tipping-complaints tale:

In the brief time I spent dealing blackjack and small casino the dealers would complain during their breaks about such-and-such player on their table and that "nobody was even tipping."
I guess it's a positive reinforcement for them that they are doing a nice job or that the customer is happy to be winning, etc but I just never understood why anyone would give a crap. Like most casinos...we pool our damn tips. That $1 tip you got gets split with all the other dealers from every shift so you get less than a penny of that. So why should you care?
I tried to make the argument that I didn't give a damn whether they tipped me or not. If we kept our own tips then obviously I would. But i would WAY rather have a table full of pleasant people even if they weren't tipping vs. a table of abusive jerks who thought that the fact they were tipping me also gave them the right to blow smoke in my face.
I end up making the same money pretty much whether my specific players are tipping or not.
Nobody seemed to get that though. The dealers just liked to complain about their lack of tips...or even to brag about the monster tips they were getting from some guy [again seemingly failing to realize that it doesn't change their check at the end of the week at all really].

A bartender/waiter like the OP I can actually understand and comprehend whining too much somebody who doesn't tip. Even though their wage is probably more than they deserve for the job they perform they still come to kind of expect it and thus will end up resenting those who don't tip up to their standards because it directly effects how much money they make. But for a dealer at a casino with pooled-tips to whine about it really fascinated me because they acted like it was making this huge difference as to whether or not they could make a living or not.
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:20 PM   #369
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

Quote:
As for the reasons for tipping the bartender when all he did was open your beer:
1) He will remember you the next time he sees you waiting for a beer and you can expect prompt service. If there are 3 people waiting for a drink and 2 are known tippers and 1 is not guess who is getting served last?
2) If you are having a mixed drink and are tipping well you can expect a stronger pour (if that is what you want).
3) Depending upon the policy of the bar you are in a good tip can result in getting a drink or beer on the house. If you are not tipping I can guarantee you will NOT be getting anything comped. There is a regular who comes in my place every day. He NEVER left a tip. I NEVER bought him a drink. Just recently he started leaving a tip. Usually only $1 but at least it is something. He now gets an occasional drink on me. Tipping can be + EV.

You're not tipping because the bartender opened a beer, you're establishing a relationship. You take care of us, we'll take care of you.
While reading through the thread, this was exactly what I was thinking. I work in a restaurant (not as a waiter/bartender). If you plan on ever going to a restaurant/bar more than once, then take care of those taking care of you (which obviously depends on the level of service). If you're never going to this establishment again, who gives a **** what you tip.



Quote:
another tipping-complaints tale:

In the brief time I spent dealing blackjack and small casino the dealers would complain during their breaks about such-and-such player on their table and that "nobody was even tipping."
I guess it's a positive reinforcement for them that they are doing a nice job or that the customer is happy to be winning, etc but I just never understood why anyone would give a crap. Like most casinos...we pool our damn tips. That $1 tip you got gets split with all the other dealers from every shift so you get less than a penny of that. So why should you care?
I tried to make the argument that I didn't give a damn whether they tipped me or not. If we kept our own tips then obviously I would. But i would WAY rather have a table full of pleasant people even if they weren't tipping vs. a table of abusive jerks who thought that the fact they were tipping me also gave them the right to blow smoke in my face.
I end up making the same money pretty much whether my specific players are tipping or not.
Nobody seemed to get that though. The dealers just liked to complain about their lack of tips...or even to brag about the monster tips they were getting from some guy [again seemingly failing to realize that it doesn't change their check at the end of the week at all really].

A bartender/waiter like the OP I can actually understand and comprehend whining too much somebody who doesn't tip. Even though their wage is probably more than they deserve for the job they perform they still come to kind of expect it and thus will end up resenting those who don't tip up to their standards because it directly effects how much money they make. But for a dealer at a casino with pooled-tips to whine about it really fascinated me because they acted like it was making this huge difference as to whether or not they could make a living or not.
I also pool my tips with other people, although its only 1-3 people at most. When it comes down to it, every single $1 adds up substantially, and if I have 30 people tip me one extra $1 than normal, thats an extra $8-$15 dollars in my pocket. In your case though, splitting with 50+ people obviously can make you feel hopeless, but imagine if everyone performed to the best of their abilities, and each one of these 50+ people made a few more dollars an hour. How would that effect your $ pool?

As far as why the U.S. tipping system is like this, bar/restaurant owners who pay their employees less (because they make tips) substantially lowers their bottom line. A proprietor paying ~150 people $10/hour will save a ton of money if he is able to pay those ~150 people $3.77/hour (minimum serving wage in my state).

Also it's tilting the hell out of me when I see comments remarking that "I'm only leaving .50c because the beer is 3.50, if it was 3.25 i'd leave .75c, or if it was $4 i'd leave $1, change the price and you'd be tipped better" etc etc. A bartender/waiter does not price your drinks or your food, corporate offices or at the very least the owner of an independent restaurant prices it, NOT the person serving you.

Also, I'm not sure about how much the servers I work with make, but the bartenders make about $20-30/hour. And I can say none of them are douchebags like the OP.

Last edited by crackedquads; 06-25-2008 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:21 PM   #370
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

i wanted to rant a bit and this seems like the perfect place.

I wanted Mexican food for dinner tonight and there's a new family-owned place a few blocks from my house. I stopped there after work tonight and it was closed -theyre only open for lunch. So I drove a block over and that family-owned was closed. So now I really wanted Mexican so I drove home and called a neighborhood restaurant that is more well known in the area. I usually don't order from them because they charge for chips and salsa - but only if the order is to go. That doesn't make any sense to me. I can eat endless baskets inside but if I get my food in a bag and put one bag of chips in they charge me.

Anyway I was hungry and ordered from them tonight. So I order w/ my chips and go to pickup. I thought the price quoted on the phone seemed like a lot but whatever. When I saw the itemized receipt I saw they raised the price of their chips to $3.50 and now they charge a $1 to go service charge. ****ers. I paid over 50% more for my dinner because I didn't eat it there. Last time I order from them. And who's the cheap one for nickel and diming me in this instance?
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:56 PM   #371
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

i quit reading this thread after the first 90 posts or whatever because arguing about whether to tip $.50 or $1.00 is seriously lol.

i do have a question though that doesn't warrant another thread but has to do with being a bartender.

i live in vegas (green valley) and have played poker for a living for a few years. my wife and i have plenty of money to sustain our relatively cheap lifestyle, but are by no means "rich."

anyway, poker is getting boring as hell for me and i want to go out and do something part-time just to get out of the house, have a little fun, and be more social. my first thought was a job doing something at a golf course, but summer time is definitely not the right time to try to get a job at a golf course, so i was thinking about trying to get a bar tending gig.

someone i talked to said bar tending school is like $2k or something, which isn't a big deal, but my question is, if i do that, would i still have to start at the bottom of the restaurant ladder? meaning, would i have to start at host, then bus, then serve, then bar back just to get to bar tend?

i don't want to get a job on the strip or anything, i'd prefer somewhere like fado's or something off the strip and more mellow. i wouldn't try to get good hours or anything, i'd prefer like 3 days a week working morning/day shifts.

anyone got any idea about this? i expect that it probably depends on the restaurant/bar, but any info would help.

thanks.



oh, and op, and a bunch of other people in this thread, stop being nits, although salsa and chips should be free.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:02 PM   #372
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo56 View Post
You're not tipping because the bartender opened a beer, you're establishing a relationship.
I travel a bit for work and occasionally have a drink at a bar when I'm out. So based on your theory since I don't plan to go ever back to that bar, there's no reason to tip?
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:46 PM   #373
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob View Post
another tipping-complaints tale:

In the brief time I spent dealing blackjack and small casino the dealers would complain during their breaks about such-and-such player on their table and that "nobody was even tipping."
I guess it's a positive reinforcement for them that they are doing a nice job or that the customer is happy to be winning, etc but I just never understood why anyone would give a crap. Like most casinos...we pool our damn tips. That $1 tip you got gets split with all the other dealers from every shift so you get less than a penny of that. So why should you care?
I tried to make the argument that I didn't give a damn whether they tipped me or not. If we kept our own tips then obviously I would. But i would WAY rather have a table full of pleasant people even if they weren't tipping vs. a table of abusive jerks who thought that the fact they were tipping me also gave them the right to blow smoke in my face.
I end up making the same money pretty much whether my specific players are tipping or not.
Nobody seemed to get that though. The dealers just liked to complain about their lack of tips...or even to brag about the monster tips they were getting from some guy [again seemingly failing to realize that it doesn't change their check at the end of the week at all really].
MacroRobert,
This makes no sense at all and your co-workers probably hated you for steadfastly trying to implement this horrible logic on them. I can't believe you wrote this; you normally are a pretty sensible dude.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:09 PM   #374
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

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Originally Posted by samsonite2100 View Post
Fwiw, I wouldn't spend 50 bucks on F and F.
you cheap a**hole.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:34 PM   #375
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Re: Wtf Cheap People

Quote:
Originally Posted by lost vegas View Post

someone i talked to said bar tending school is like $2k or something, which isn't a big deal, but my question is, if i do that, would i still have to start at the bottom of the restaurant ladder? meaning, would i have to start at host, then bus, then serve, then bar back just to get to bar tend?

i don't want to get a job on the strip or anything, i'd prefer somewhere like fado's or something off the strip and more mellow. i wouldn't try to get good hours or anything, i'd prefer like 3 days a week working morning/day shifts.

anyone got any idea about this? i expect that it probably depends on the restaurant/bar, but any info would help.

thanks.



oh, and op, and a bunch of other people in this thread, stop being nits, although salsa and chips should be free.
It really depends on where you apply/get hired, but if you go to bar tending school I'm fairly positive you could find a job as a bartender. If you have no waiting experience you could find a serving job fairly easy at a low scaleish place (like applebees, definately dennys) but almost all higher priced restaurants and chain restuarants require experience to be hired as a server. I'm not sure specifically what my proprietor looks for, but it's in the 2 year exp+, and the chili's across the street requires 2 years minimum. Applying at places about to open (like say you have a Friday's being built in your neighborhood) would probaly get you hired reguardless of experience.

I'm not sure about where you live, but because of the "recession" and because its summer, most restaurants aren't looking for new staff, or are even looking to get rid of staff.

Depending on how old you are you may want to try to start off as a busser/hostess and work your way up, but actually being moved up may depend on where you get hired. At my place it takes FOREVER for people to be moved up but at my GF's restaurant they promote fairly faster.
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