Are you sure that's not supposed to read, "seems like it lasts 5 days and always ends in a draw"? You know, just like soccer?

Don't think this is true.

food knowledge/interest has now exploded in England for some reason (particularly in London) and you do see plenty of talented natives either go the 'Modern British' route (to varying degrees of gastronomic ambition, Clove Club, Lyles, any of Jason Atherton's places, Cornerstone, Five Fields, Brat, Story, Hix, quality chophouse, Heston, etc etc) or do the Ben Chapman route and faithfully take on another cuisine, coming out with products like Kiln and the Smoking Goat.

I could name many, many more examples and there are a lot of Brits there.

This is an interesting post. Not sure whether it's necessarily true but it's got me thinking.

On the one hand there used to be a good amount of talented foreign cookery labour in London, but now there is a shortage because of Brexit concerns/the fact that cheffing is tough and Brits don't like to do tough work for low pay etc.

On the other hand food knowledge/interest has now exploded in England for some reason (particularly in London) and you do see plenty of talented natives either go the 'Modern British' route (to varying degrees of gastronomic ambition, Clove Club, Lyles, any of Jason Atherton's places, Cornerstone, Five Fields, Brat, Story, Hix, quality chophouse, Heston, etc etc) or do the Ben Chapman route and faithfully take on another cuisine, coming out with products like Kiln and the Smoking Goat.

So I dunno which wins out. Maybe there are enough restaurants that fit the latter to make up for the labour shortage.

EDIT: Sorry about the double post above, something happened to my computer it looks like.

Anyway, back on topic.

One thing I admire about America is the desire to be the absolute best at a given thing.

Taking restaurants as an example. The US may not have the world's best cuisine (although some of it is clearly amazing) but if an American chef/restauranteur is gonna try, he's gonna shoot for the stars. I went to Vegas and it's not just about the food and the service on the day, it's about communicating the message through promo videos you can watch in the hotel rooms, it's about making the chef front and centre and portraying his philosophy. As well as just cooking I get the impression they are thinking about how they can reinvent and innovate and stay on top probably more than European counterparts, for example.

I think the difference in Europe in general is that there is so much good food but less of an emphasis on the process, and the marketing, it's more relaxed and taken for granted that people already understand the philosophy of what a place is trying to do, or its conveyed in a more subtle way, they often like to put all the song and dance in the background.

I'm not saying either is right or wrong, just that the American approach is probably more symptomatic of a holistic effort to produce, market and innovate that to me demonstrates thinking more about all aspects of how something can be successful.

So some Cornish people live in America so it instantly has the best pasty's? Lets face it, they are the only Cornish Pasty's you have tried, I bet the crimp even went over the top. Probably put carrot in there.

I actually live in Cornwall, no pasty shop in Yankland is going to get close to Mcfaddens in St Just.

Feels like I would get along with SandraXII.

The British old guard chefs were nothing to scoff at either, granted they were almost all French ( Roux brothers, Pierre Koffman, Raymond Blanc). Nico Ladenis is Greek I believe. El Diablo favorite Chris Cosentino was a student of Pierre Koffman, I believe.

If there is one dish served in London that I lament not having tasted, it would be Koffman's pig trotters stuffed with morels and sweetbreads. A completely technique driven amalgamation of peasant food and luxury.

Did they also get runner-up in some regional competition like your brewers did?

Yes! Didn't Marco basically steal this dish?

Koffman's new(ish) place in London is meant to be great, I keep meaning to go.

Dude,

1. Look at the time and effort you're putting into this issue.
2. Take a guess at how many people will change their minds because of this effort.
3. Reevaluate your ****ing life.

I know Marco Pierre White cooked it but I think he always atttibuted it to Koffman.

I think there is another huge difference. I'm only going by impression, which seemed confirmed by this thread.

In Europe, they hold onto tradition. There are even laws about what you can call food, from what I understand. It seems that the going Euro opinion is that centuries of tradition and mystery are highly valued.

The US is pretty divided on this. Some people are deeply steeped in tradition, so you have soul food and Cajun food as examples that aren't really touched. Foreign foods are also popular here, though how genuine it is can be a matter of degree.

Then you have others who are all about the hybrid, so you end up with CalMex, TexMex, Southern-[whatever], and so on. Then you have some wild hybrids that aren't really able to be put into a bucket. The spirit of experimentation is rich and varied.

A typical American cooks simple, dependable dishes that's been passed down over the generations. At a typical restaurant, we are eating things we could have cooked at home, like spaghetti and meatballs.

It's not often we are going out to try the newest insane invention. That world is for the "foodie" world. I'd guess that, if you asked 100 Americans, 95 of them has never ate at these places.

They are made by Cornish folk who moved to 'murica (and as per rule, are now 'murican). You would love their Korean barbecue version of the pasty. j/k. Believe it or not, we actually have access to the necessary ingredients since we have an abundance of excellent farmland and (as everyone should know) it isn't exactly a complicated dish. Rumor has it that they had a bit of trouble figuring out that turnips are actually swede which is actually rutabaga.

We've got no eel and mash shops at all, which means we win the eel and mash shop category hands down.

I think the hybrid stuff feeds back into the notion of innovation. Americans are among the best at innovating but crucially the most open to innovation, and they have the best brains and resources to do it. I agree that Europe in the main holds onto traditions more, but I believe that is changing in parts, particularly when the tradition was never that defined.

London's cuisine for instance has never been too refined or defined beyond the sort of stuff you wouldn't normally go out and eat for a special occasion (pie and mash, fish and chips, steak pudding etc) which means there was way more room to innovate and create its own identity. Same goes for some Scandinavian countries which have also burst onto the food scene relatively recently.

A country like Italy on the other hand is full of regional specialities that are beloved and people have been sitting down to eat for many, many years, so there is more reluctance to change and experiment there.

For me, sometimes tradition is just something so entrenched in the area that it is a wonderful thing to experience, and I can totally understand why people want to hold onto it. I went skiing in Austria in March and I ate a garmknodel.



It's a yeast dumpling filled with plum jam and served with vanilla custard; a stodgy, sticky mess of carbohydrates and sugar and topped with poppy seeds and more sugar. It's resolutely unfashionable by today's eating trends and absolutely delicious. It also hasn't changed one bit since i ate the same dish when I was ten years old in a different resort 30 miles away, and I hope it won't have changed 25 years from now. Those sorts of experiences are magical - it took me back to a time I never thought I could recapture.

Would be interesting to hear any Americans weigh in on their own thoughts about tradition vs innovation, particularly if they live in an area of the US where tradition is valued higher, but also if there are instances where tradition and innovation can live side by side.

I'm rather divided on it. When I was a kid, fruits and vegetables were either in season or out of season. You couldn't buy certain foods year-round, so what you ate in the summer was different than what you ate in the winter. It feels more... sigh, natural to me like that. To this day, I can't eat certain foods when it's hot outside.

When I want foreign food, I want the real deal, not something that's made for American taste buds.

I see food as fuel, not something I go out and enjoy or see as an experience. A subset of foodies are the type who want the fire and beautiful arrangements and complex sauces. I can appreciate this stuff from afar, but I'm paying for fuel, not entertainment, art, or to be impressed with the chef's unique takes.

USA#1 has better national parks and interesting places than any other country:

Yellowstone
Zion, specifically including Narrows
Big Sur
Denali
Appalachian Trail
Rocky Mountains
Sierras
Kelbaker Dunes
Blue Ridge
Grand Canyon

I could go on.

Yeah it's pretty clear the US wins on geographical merit - you have nearly every single type of environment in one country.

I agree the US has more geographical attractions than any other country, and the population and government still haven't managed to **** them up.

Yeah I don't think anyone can disagree that the US is a country of amazing scenery. That said, if I were American I wouldn't be taking credit for it.

Well, it’s one of the things that make America great!

Greatness points deducted for overuse of exclamation marks.

Haha, I pity the man who thinks effort has been involved.

As for time, yes on evaluation I must be the only person in the world to kill time on the internet.

Well done, in a thread full of derp, you win the gold.

^^^ This is what we can take credit for, there's always a segment of the US that wants more mines, oil wells and strip malls. We have enough of that BS as it is.

Not shopped, sir. Genuine USA#1 cows!