I think the retirement age will continue to go up as we live longer, stay healthy longer, and as fewer jobs are physically demanding. Shorter working hours or fewer workdays makes sense, as well as flexible hours and working from home. We are also starting work later in life, on average. Maybe the need for two income families will back off a little as well, especially if daycare costs really start to rival available salaries for the second earner.

It's so hard to talk about this with some people, especially those who have spent most of their lives being a part of the system. Talking to older generations is like a brick wall, they think that because they did it, that everyone else should be required to work as hard as they did.

Like, it's not crazy to want to work less. Isn't retirement the entire point of working? But no, we somehow spin it like leisure is a bad thing. What is the point of being an enlightened species if we're just going to enforce wage slavery? It's really ****ing annoying.

Who is for enforcing wage slavery?

They are

I mean, we all are. We are all culpable.


See? This is what I mean. I said "wage slavery" and you immediately took it to be combative. People are so quick to put their dukes up against all the wrong things.

I picked that because I'm trying to figure out what you're on about. I still am.

We have to work for most, if not all, of our lives in order to survive. For the majority of the population, it is impossible to rise above this hurdle or even make progress away from it because of the time/effort it takes just to break even. That is wage slavery.

A lot of people believe it's heresy to suggest any other alternative. As you see, now that automation and AI are finally reaching heights where we could conceivably work less, the idea is instead demonized for destroying jobs because a job is "required" for a productive life.

By all means, please suggest one.

Oh right, I forgot that you can't complain about something unless you have prepared an airtight solution to the problem.

I agree with whatthejish.

Along similar lines, I commonly see people putting their jobs in front of their spouses and family. Some peoples priorities are messed up.

I got to experience Broadcom during it's startup phase. The number of failed marriages that company caused is crazy.

Well, then don't do that sort of thing. Pretty airtight solution.

I agree there is nothing wrong with working less, as technology allows it. Lost jobs will hurt some more than others, but on average and over time we will all be better off.

nice

Whether it goes up or down is a question of political choices - for example Slovakia has recently passed a constitutional amendment to fix it the retirement age at 64, which going forward will have an impact on the amounts that can be paid out so it's a political choice. People can still work full time after 64 and re-invest their earlier pension payments if they want the shorter but richer style of retirement. Some people, particularly those doing the physical jobs and those with lower life expectancy in general would be ill advised to do that though.

If the retirement age is held down then people after a certain age simply have a personal choice about whether or not they work and I agree a lot of people will continue to work to some extent. It's noticeable among expat English teachers that those who don't go home are often still doing a light schedule of 4-5 lessons a week well into their seventies. Some people say there should be a "basic income" for everyone and while that may not be that easy to introduce, progressively reducing the retirement age might be a more politically acceptable way to get the same advantages.

So they're not actually legislating a retirement age, just an age to start receiving benefits.

No, you can retire whenever you want, as in any country AFAIK.

For example in the UK snooker player Ronnie O'Sullivan announced his retirement as a 19-year-old, though he didn't actually stop playing.

There are sometimes laws about when you can start drawing private pensions, for example in the UK it used to be 50 and then they changed it to 55 (though there are exceptions for some professions such as sports people)

On the other side, I don't know of countries which actively ban working past a certain age either.

Its interesting how some people are obviously heavily ideologically invested in the idea of people having to work.

The idea of everyone being able to eat well, live well and enjoy leisure time/activities if they wanted too without harming anyone else in a reducing their opportunity way seems to push some peoples buttons emotionally.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE JOBS!!!!!!!!!!

Late stage planet development where menial tasks are left to engineering and we embrace spirituality, science, and exploration. The nature of work will be completely different but there will always be work being done even if its linked to spiritual progression, species uplifting and non-machine intelligent intervention.

Who?

People don't all have to work, but some people definitely have to, or great numbers of us starve to death, among other deprivations. That means that the ones who don't work are supported by those who do, directly or indirectly. The only ideological investment I have is that this arrangement be voluntary, and not enforced by the government.

Please.

Ya got me.

Back in the 19th century, all of these machines came into being that allowed humans to make a "thing" with less effort. People believed that with the advent of the steam engine, humans were on the cusp of not having to work ever again.

Then along came the computer and space travel. Soon, humans were going to live in a paradise and by the year 2000, we'd all have flying cars and robot maids, like the Jetsons.

Shorty after the Jetsons, we had the electronic printer, which was going to make writing moot.

Then along came the desktop computer that anyone could learn to use, which was going to allow all offices to go entirely paperless.

Then along came email, which was going to remove the need to ever send paper mail again.

We moved along from the steam engine and had electricity. We have computers that hook into printers, which spits out tons of paper mail that fills up our mail box with a pound of junk mail every day.

Future predictions are always wrong. Economics and capitalism will always encourage more innovation, which means that there will always be work.

FWIW, if you really believe that AI trucks will cause massive unemployment, you don't know anything at all about what truckers actually do, nor do you understand the entire ecosystem that surrounds said truckers. You must believe an accountant does nothing but count stacks of money all day.

Always, always, always. You heard it here, folks.


You’re speaking with certainty about things that simply aren’t certain. Humanity’s hubris knows no bounds.