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Old 01-10-2009, 02:29 AM   #201
MicroBob
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by Cry Me A River View Post
Wow, this thread is turning into the Suze Orman show.



ummm, does Suze have chipped teeth or a big gap or something or did she just eat some oreos and has a big crumb on the end there?

edit - Or maybe it's a big ant that's sitting on her lip.
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:35 AM   #202
Omar Comin
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

email is hilarious

I lold, now post the real one op.
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:13 AM   #203
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

This thread is ridiculous, and full of some of the same people that would probably get pissed if they bought dinner for their girlfriend and didn't go dutch.

This is your friend, Tweety. Only you can judge how bad he needs this money, versus how badly he needs to hit rock bottom before he can rise again. Of course he should go out and get a job, thats the easy answer. The hard answer is realizing that in most of these cases, your friend has been so disillusioned by life that he himself has developed a serious psychological disorder (in most cases severe undiagnosed depression). The real way to look at this is to evaluate the three most obvious paths for what will benefit your friend the most. These 3 paths are clinical, natural course, and diversionary.

The clinical path would be one which involves more scientific treatment involving drugs, psychiatrists, etc. This path is an incredibly hard path to take but can be effective and requires the full cooperation of your friend. It can be beneficial in terms of stopping your friend from an absolutely terrible life, however serious psychosomatic medications often can have some very sad long term side effects, but he may be a more contributing member of society than otherwise.

The natural course path involves simply not helping your friend at all and letting him learn the meaning of what his life should be. He may or may not be your friend after this, and this doesn't always work. He can end up a scourge on society depending on how hard he falls. The essential idea is to let him be as self destructive as hed like until his very survival is threatened. At that point, darwinian nature will coerce him to either perish or adapt how he behaves to live. The upside is that an experience like this is truly rewarding in terms of accomplishments later on in life, however the serious risk is that there can be a spiral into actual psychological derangement, and he could end up homeless or worse.

The third is his proposed idea of going off to South America and fulfilling some sort of fantasy that he thinks is the right move for him. This will certainly take his mind off life, give him some sort of false purpose while he wastes valuable time. It will definitely be an enriching experience, however it may not address any of the chronic faults that have guided him to this point. That being said, life is ****ty and all the things happening at once is certainly hard to bear for anyone. Theres merit, the upside to this approach is that it will forestall any dire situations for the time being. The downside is that you may have only masked the symptoms, while serious underlying personal issues go unaddressed and can easily relapse when he feels his South American joyride should end.

Ultimately, as a friend please ignore all the above posts contending to the size of the cash loan. Money while an important factor of life is such a terrible thing to make decisions upon. If you save this friend the dividends paid will far surpass anything you could do with the money or effort spent.
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:28 AM   #204
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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and full of some of the same people that would probably get pissed if they bought dinner for their girlfriend and didn't go dutch.

This is so dumb. OP's friend is coming with his hand out for $20k because he finally ran out of money after stalling for long as he could without a job and now he feels like it's time for a vacation.

On the issue of being so cheap as to try to split the check with one's GF? Ummm, WTF? No, I would never do that. That's not even a teeny bit related to the issues we're discussing here.

Regarding your last sentence, I'm pretty sure most of the people here think that he would NOT be saving his friend if he gave him the money. Do you not understand that? If he needed the $20k for a new kidney or something I'm thinking OP and others in this thread fire off that money without even thinking twice about it. But for a guy who is going broke on purpose and thinks his friends should pay for his vacation and other expenses....that's not quite the same and certainly isn't the list bit related to 'saving him'. It is very much related to 'enabling him' though but it's mostly just "give me money for all my irresponsibility. I want to keep on partying."
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:02 AM   #205
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Before reading OP -- I say don't give it to him.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:43 AM   #206
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Let's call my friend Dave. Here is the email I sent him today:

[I]Dave,

Sandy (my wife) and I normally spend about 12-15k on a caribean vacation around this time of year....
He doesn't even know your wife's name?
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:49 PM   #207
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by MicroBob View Post
This is so dumb. OP's friend is coming with his hand out for $20k because he finally ran out of money after stalling for long as he could without a job and now he feels like it's time for a vacation.

On the issue of being so cheap as to try to split the check with one's GF? Ummm, WTF? No, I would never do that. That's not even a teeny bit related to the issues we're discussing here.

Regarding your last sentence, I'm pretty sure most of the people here think that he would NOT be saving his friend if he gave him the money. Do you not understand that? If he needed the $20k for a new kidney or something I'm thinking OP and others in this thread fire off that money without even thinking twice about it. But for a guy who is going broke on purpose and thinks his friends should pay for his vacation and other expenses....that's not quite the same and certainly isn't the list bit related to 'saving him'. It is very much related to 'enabling him' though but it's mostly just "give me money for all my irresponsibility. I want to keep on partying."
Do you understand that a lot of people in this spot aren't just like meh lets be irresponsible? A good portion of the time bad occurences in life have crushed any form of will to live for the time being, and some times escapist diversionary dreams like going to South America can solve the problem. Thats what I'm getting at. It's not to be held lightly "oh lets just hand out 10k," but it is important to realize you may have the potential to save the next 40 years of someone you care about's life, and thats worth way more than 10k.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:19 PM   #208
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Do you understand that a lot of people in this spot aren't just like meh lets be irresponsible? A good portion of the time bad occurences in life have crushed any form of will to live for the time being, and some times escapist diversionary dreams like going to South America can solve the problem. Thats what I'm getting at. It's not to be held lightly "oh lets just hand out 10k," but it is important to realize you may have the potential to save the next 40 years of someone you care about's life, and thats worth way more than 10k.
it is painfully obvious that tweety's 'friend' set up 20+ years of friendship and led an irresponsible life so that some day he could hit up his 'friend' for a loan which he would never pay back. it's a plan so insidious and devious that some of you rubes are falling for it.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:24 PM   #209
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by dxu05 View Post
Do you understand that a lot of people in this spot aren't just like meh lets be irresponsible? A good portion of the time bad occurences in life have crushed any form of will to live for the time being, and some times escapist diversionary dreams like going to South America can solve the problem. Thats what I'm getting at. It's not to be held lightly "oh lets just hand out 10k," but it is important to realize you may have the potential to save the next 40 years of someone you care about's life, and thats worth way more than 10k.
Wanna be my friend?
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:33 PM   #210
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Wait.

You turned down loaning 15K to family so they could buy a house, but you're considering lending a friend 10K to pay off credit card debt?

WTF?!?!?

No wonder your wife is pissed!

You do realize that you've just told your wife that your friend "finding himself" is more important than her sister having a place to live?
She has a place to live (rents a place) and we have helped her plenty of times in the past.

I'm not doing the loan. The advice in this thread has been very good.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:38 PM   #211
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by dxu05 View Post
Do you understand that a lot of people in this spot aren't just like meh lets be irresponsible? A good portion of the time bad occurences in life have crushed any form of will to live for the time being, and some times escapist diversionary dreams like going to South America can solve the problem. Thats what I'm getting at. It's not to be held lightly "oh lets just hand out 10k," but it is important to realize you may have the potential to save the next 40 years of someone you care about's life, and thats worth way more than 10k.
HIS FRIEND DOES LOTS OF BLOW! Where do you think that money is going to end up? He needs to hit bottom. Bailing him out will do nothing to improve his situation.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:40 PM   #212
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post

I'm not doing the loan. The advice in this thread has been very good.
Woah. Steady on there, bro! Don't you go bucking the trend of these threads and actually follow the advice. How are we going to make fun of you in other threads now? Do you realise what you've done??
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:47 PM   #213
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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I'm not doing the loan. The advice in this thread has been very good and to reward you all for your help and time I will be posting pics of Sandy (my wife) shortly.
Fixed your post. Glad we could help.
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:33 PM   #214
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Fixed your post. Glad we could help.
Soon to be creating smartuq gimmik
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:06 PM   #215
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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OK, after reading Tweety's most recent update, I officially don't give a ****.

wtf? You pay 200k a year on your house? So you earn what, 600-800k a year, if not more? Then you refer to your other friend who is doing really well. What does he earn, 2-3 million a year?

And listing your expenses to this guy was just stupid. It makes you look like king douche/tool of the world. First, you don't need to justify anything to him. Second, that was about the worst possible way of explaining yourself, because you clearly could drop 10k on this guy without affecting your life at all. Now you just look like a selfish douche for not helping a friend out. By listing all the money you have, you pulled the equivalent of standing in front of a homeless guy while pulling hundred dollar bills out of your wallet and setting them on fire. Douche move, imo.

Also, **** OP if he can't help out his sister-in-law for a relatively small amount but he's still taking 12-15k vacations and burning through money. Seriously, wtf? I'm guessing OP is on Wall Street. It is exactly this kind of tool/douche that ****ed over our whole economy.

Just to be clear, I don't think giving the money to the friend is a good idea no matter how much money OP has because the friend clearly is living in his own fantasy world. But having said that, OP is just as detached from reality as his friend, just in a differrent way.
This^

Remind your friend how rich you are, and then say no.

As others have said, just say no. He doesn't need an audited account of your net worth and expenses.......
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:47 PM   #216
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I'm glad Tweety is not one of my top 3 friends.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:59 PM   #217
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I would insta write the check for someone who I considered my best friend, even if I only had ~11k
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:03 PM   #218
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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I would insta write the check for someone who I considered my best friend, even if I only had ~11k
Despite having a lot of friends, I would say I have only two best friends. I trust these guys with my life, which is why I consider them my best friends. If they need money, and I have the money to spare, I would give it to them without hesitation.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:03 PM   #219
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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I would insta write the check for someone who I considered my best friend, even if I only had ~11k
If you wrote a 10k check to a friend in the same situation as OP's (he was planning on going to South America to find himself. He also does blow), and you only had 11k, that makes you pretty ****ing stupid.
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:34 PM   #220
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

If he's really a top 3 friend of yourself (clearly future, if not current) millionaire, and other millionaire friend, I'd say just bail the guy out one time and then wash your hands of the situation. Or, better yet use your connections to find him a job or something.

I was totally on board w/not lending him money until I read that you have 900k in debt. I guess it seems counterintuitive kinda but someone w/the means to accrue that much debt should have 10k for one for their closest friends. Also, I dunno why your 7 figure/year friend just doesn't volunteer to pay all of it. Also, I don't know why his mom can't pay it. Jesus, what a dumb situation.
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:07 PM   #221
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I would give pretty much any friend of mine in need $10k. That doesn't mean that a friend who asks me for $10k is actually in need. My friend continuing to blow his money on drugs with zero attempts (I am assuming) to find an actual job does NOT qualify as being 'in need'. It qualifies me as enabling him so he can continue to go without a job while I pay him to not work....and I get to keep getting up at 5:30am or whatever to go to work because I somehow enjoy supporting my friend's drug habit.

I would really want to help my friend in such a situation. Giving him more money to do more drugs isn't the kind of help I'm thinking of.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:47 AM   #222
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

the thing is microbob, how sure are you that he is going to use the money for drugs?

how can you be 100% sure that he isn't trying to get clean and start fresh? and if he is trying to get clean, and you deny him, which may cause him to lose all hope of a clean start and relapse, how would you feel then?

I'd give him the money as a loan, and if he squandered it, I'd still expect it back. If he didn't pay it back, I could then go ahead and wipe his a friend, knowing that I did more than others would have to try and help him, and that I got screwed. Whilst I would be upset, I'd also be relieved that I didn't have any moral burden or sense of guilt about it.

If I was in OP's situation and didn't loan one of my best (that is the key word) friends the money, only for him to do relapse and then start stealing, or worse; THEN I would feel bad about it.

And sacrificing a year's Caribbean holiday (and that's assuming we don't get paid back) in order to avoid years of potential guilt is worth it imo.

The only thing is here, OP is in alot of debt himself. Having said that though, at least OP has credit rating and can get more money. OP's friend might not be able to get money from the bank.

I initially said that I wouldn't give the money but I think it is a VERY close decision. If the wife is against it it could create lot of problems on that front too. I'd definitely encourage the rich friend to give the money though. Seriously, wtf @ being rich and not giving a "best friend" a loan in a time of need. If he takes the money and does a runner, then good on him. He just lost one of few best friends for a few months of crack.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:17 AM   #223
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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how can you be 100% sure that he isn't trying to get clean and start fresh

Because he says he's going to move to South America without any real plan for a job. I would talk it through with him to try to straighten him out and/or encourage him to get help if he really does have an issue with drugs as we suspect and/or also encourage him to stand up on his own two feet since he's perfectly freaking capable of doing that and simply isn't doing so currently by his own choice.


Quote:
a "best friend" a loan in a time of need.

I would absolutely give a close friend or even a not-so-close friend a loan or gift of this nature in a time of need. The difference with this situation is that it's not a time of need. He just hasn't felt like getting a job. And he doesn't feel like getting one for the immediate future and also going to South America (with very vague plans of, "perhaps I'll be able to get some sort of job somewhere down there.")

If he thinks that travelling around to South America, etc will help him get clean I think he's nuts.

And if going to South America and travelling around is some big dream for him then I think it shouldn't be too hard for him to get his act together and save up to do that instead of sitting around for the past several months essentially doing nothing because he didn't feel like it and then having the stones to tell his friends that he still didn't feel like going out and getting the money himself but since he knew they had money he thought it would be okay to ask them to finance his unemployment and his trip to S.A.

It's just offensive if he's not a drug addict. And if he is and you really think that giving him $20k won't go straight to more drugs then you might be higher than he is.

I completely agree with giving a friend a loan in a time of need. This situation doesn't qualify.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:19 AM   #224
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

he wants a change, an escape

i'm only 21 and sometimes i feel claustrophobic and helpless, as if I need a change. I think it's reasonable that someone who's had some problems might want to get away for a few months to try and find some peace.

I hardly think he is planning a coke adventure most of the time here
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:25 AM   #225
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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True but doesn't this basically mean he can't ever get a loan for a house, if let's say he fixed his life and in 3 years were in a position to be able to get a home loan?
He can always just have you co-sign on his mortgage. That's what friends are for.
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