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Old 01-08-2009, 07:23 PM   #151
Quadstriker
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

10k loan yo?




No but really, if OP gives him one red cent he is an absolute fool.
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:16 PM   #152
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

While terrible for people who look to invest on the website, maybe suggest prosper.com to him?
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:34 PM   #153
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by garcia1000 View Post
What is the other friend's reply?
My other friend is a lot better off than I am (makes a very nice income, well into 7 figure territory). Also he is single, rents an apartment, and is sitting on a mountain of cash and investments.

He says he's inclined to help him, but he doesn't want to put in any more than I do, and he's not doing it unless I do it.

That said, he feels the request is inappropriate. He says if he does it, it's a gift, but it has to be made clear that this is a one-shot deal. We can't be sending this guy $10k everytime he hits a rut in his life.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:57 PM   #154
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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We can't be sending this guy $10k ever
fyp
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:59 PM   #155
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by 27offsuit View Post
BTW Tweety,

2+2 demands an epilogue to this thread.
Let's call my friend Dave. Here is the email I sent him today:

Dave,

Let's talk about this weekend when there is more time. This week has been exceptionally busy at work.

Just as a headline- I am really in a tight financial situation myself right now. In addition to my massive monthly expense nut ($16,600 just for rent, mortgage and maintenance alone before I've spent a penny on food or my daughter or anything else), I owe my Dad over 500k, and I have a $400k renovation project staring me in the face. I also haven't even found out my 08 bonus yet. Quite frankly, even if they pay me on the upper end of expectations, I'm going to be in a real cash crunch next year. Sandy (my wife) and I normally spend about 12-15k on a caribean vacation around this time of year- this year we canceled it because we don't feel it's feasible or prudent to spend the money. We also passed on loaning Sandy's's sister 15k for a down payment to buy a foreclosed property because we're worried about money. So that's my current situation.

But I'd like to talk to you more about yours. Not just from the standpoint of your need for money, but in general as well. This is just not easily done on a weeknight for me. I'm thinking Saturday mid-day if that works for you. How does that sound?


That is what I sent him today. I have not heard back. I am leaning towards not loaning the money.

I will update the forum on what happens from here on.

I have to say I have really appreciated the time OOT has taken to analyze my situation and provide sound reasoning. Thanks very much.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:07 AM   #156
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Pretty good email, especially the part about talking to him about his situation.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:17 AM   #157
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Nice response but man, you have a daughter and very well may have more children in the future. Forget this schmuck and put your disposable money towards a college fund or investments for you kids. Seriously even if this guy was an angel I would rather spend any extra money on my kids whether that be private school, cool vacations, etc etc.

Think of the children!!
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:12 AM   #158
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

he should run up more cc debt, then declare bankruptcy.
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:13 AM   #159
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Although not completely the same, I'm in a similar situation as your friend, and I'm digging my own way out. The bit of help I needed to get me started I got from my parents who were ever so helpful; I never would have considered asking a friend.

As with the multitude of responses here, I'd recommend not lending it unless you plan on never seeing it (or much of it) again.
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:40 AM   #160
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Jesus **** tweety you totally lost me

please explain:

-a 16,600 monthly nut before general expenses
-owing daddy 500 large
-400K renovation
-denying your sister in law 15K for a way more valid and repayable reason
-12-15K yearly vacation


you're a rich kid


and why did you have to say Sandy (my wife)?

a top 3 knows that ****!

maybe i'm missing something here, but jesus...tell your fellow rich kid druggy friend who's mommy won't give him any money to ****ing smarten up and if really needs the money, mom is just gonna have to bail him out



good lord
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:26 AM   #161
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I assumed the Sandy thing should be implied to both the friend and to us, so it struck me as odd as well.

Either way, I really think you're making the right decision if you decide not to loan him money. He needs help, but this isn't the way to do it.

And Henry is right that enabling him isn't actually helping him.

Interesting update.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:32 AM   #162
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

just for reference a 16,600 monthly nut is over 200K a year
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:39 AM   #163
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

my vote is lending money is usually not a good idea.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:53 AM   #164
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Is "finding himself" really going to amount to anything other than banging S.American
hookers and doing tons of incredibly cheap coke? I can hear the phone call now. Sorry dude got sidetracked in Bolivia en route to Uruguay LOOOOOOOOOOOOOl what's a guy to do? I think I've got a real shot at finding myself here, turns out I may have been hiding under a giant pile of white powder. Time to start sniffing around wink-wink. Talk to you next year.


I don't know man. I've got about 3 or so friends that I would do something like this for and maybe a few others I would've at some point but once you've drifted apart to the point that you only catch up once a year or happen to see at get-togethers or whatever and they come at you like this it might be best to just try to keep it the way it is. And I've been on the receiving end of a TON of goodwill in the last year or so. I
seriously can't believe all this happened by email and not at least on the phone. Just the fact that he couldn't man up and call you should say a lot.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:33 AM   #165
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

if you really are in as tight a financial situation as you said in that email, and your other friend who was asked to loan money is rich, I think it's a bit ridiculous that he expect an equal contribution from you.

He may in be in a position to give a 10k or 20k gift, but you it seems are not. Does this mean he shouldn't bail out a close friend (who at least seems to possess the desire to pay it back)?

I think it's perfectly fine, if not the smart thing to do for you personally to apologize to your friend and not give him the money. But if your other friend who has bucketloads also declines giving a 10k+ loan to a close, trustworthy friend in need of some soul searching, I think that's a bit douchey.

If I had hundreds of thousands of dollars lying around and my closest friend asked for a 10k loan, and I had no reason to suspect that he didn't intend to pay it back, I'd give it to him on the basis that he pay it back. I wouldn't care even if it took him a few years and I lost a bit on inflation.

so, to rank douchiness:

1. your rich friend refusing to give a cent unless you do
2. your other friend expecting to be bailed out of problems he got himself into
3. you (not douchey at all).
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:34 AM   #166
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

tuq and henry make some good points (lol at tuq and henry and microbob all being somewhat on the same side on anything).

tuq's point about how little money he will make in South America is somewhat valid.

Regarding the shoes on e-bay thing: I kind of envisioned it as one of the several things he's chatted about in various past discussions where he's practically bragging about his self destruction to his friend over and over. Kind of an attention seeking "update on my life" in a luckyjimm sort of way:

"Well, I partied again last night and blew through some more of my dough on coke. But this time really is the last time. I still can't find it in me to get a job but this is so much more fulfilling as I really feel like I'm finding myself now. Selling all your stuff can be really cleansing in its own way. Did I mention how much I got for my shoes? Haha. Yeah, I sold my shoes so that I can keep going but I promise I'll get myself straightened out eventually but I gotta tell ya, I'm sure having a lot of fun now and catching up on all that I've been missing is awesome."

That's how I envision it anyway. He calls to blab about his coke and his girls and what else he's been up to and in his own weird way 'brag' about the various crap he's selling, etc etc.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:40 AM   #167
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

just read a few posts down and saw the $16k monthly stuff in the letter he sent. Decent response but I think it's time for a 'Tweety Financial Discussion' thread too because that just seems ridiculous. Owes his Dad 500k? Huh?

Anyway, I think he needs to have a real heart-to-heart with his friend and perhaps even find out how often he's on the blow. He's unemployed and partying with coke and the ladies and now he's asking for $20k. I find it hard to believe he's not some sort of drug addict but I guess anything's possible. But ditching the job and burning through all his money and he admits he's doing drugs and now is down to selling all his stuff and he wants to go to South America (where I hear they have a fair amount of drugs btw) and asking for $20k. Does this not sound like the guy is in need of serious help? (and not the, "give me more money so I can run away and go do more drugs" type of help).
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:59 AM   #168
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
We also passed on loaning Sandy's's sister 15k for a down payment to buy a foreclosed property because we're worried about money.
Wait.

You turned down loaning 15K to family so they could buy a house, but you're considering lending a friend 10K to pay off credit card debt?

WTF?!?!?

No wonder your wife is pissed!

You do realize that you've just told your wife that your friend "finding himself" is more important than her sister having a place to live?
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:59 AM   #169
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
I am really in a tight financial situation myself right now...
This is terrible. You are negotiating and have implicitly accepted the premise that you are morally obliged to give "Dave" as much as you can afford to give.

Figure out how many days worth of your work he is asking you for--days of getting up early, working late, being away from your family. Then ask yourself how many of those long days you want to put in so your buddy can go on an exotic vacation on your dime.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:07 AM   #170
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

cryme - He also has some excessive expenses and they are in a tight enough bind that they aren't even taking a vacation for themselves. Yet he was still very strongly considering giving his hard-earned money to his friend to go party in South America. His wife would be nuts to not be pissed at this logic and seeming order of priorities.

Yeah yeah, he's not giving the money to the guy after all (although he doesn't seem like he's quite 100% on that) but the fact he was as close as he was while he's cutting corners on everything else really blows me away. He really feels guilty about his friend and the situation he has put himself in even though it seems 100% clear to pretty much everyone that he should be able to find his way out of his own mess if he really wanted to.
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:00 AM   #171
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
I see him about once a year. We live in totally different parts of the country. We email maybe 1-2 times a week and talk on the phone maybe 2-3 times a month.

He was in my wedding party. He has always been unselfish with me and is an extremely kind and understanding person. He would never backstab me in any way.
Grunching here

Op if you loan this guy $10k you are f'n crazy. You see the guy "about once a year" now? He's got balls the size of Chicago to even ask this. And $12k in credit card debt with no place to live and evidently few possessions? Where'd that money go?

Not loaning this to him may cost you a 'friend' but loaning it to him will for sure cost you one. Cause he'll be ducking you for the rest of his life.
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:30 AM   #172
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Wow.

You americans are crazy.
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Old 01-09-2009, 06:31 AM   #173
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I care very little about a guy with 12k in CC debt.

I'm very interested as to what 16.5k/month in rent gets you, why you owe your pops half a mil, and what kind of renovations 400k gets you.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:29 AM   #174
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

you spend 12k on a carribean vacation every year??
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:40 AM   #175
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

This is how your friend is going to look at this e-mail because he's a selfish, egocentric, self-pitying failure:

My best friend of twenty some odd years lives a ridiculously extravagant lifestyle and he can't afford to float me 10k while I'm selling old shoes on ebay? Man, I thought I knew that guy but he's an *******.

Congratulations, he sent the first e-mail as a notice that your friendship has a price built in, and you just return volleyed a message that hey man, sorry bout ya, but it's really not worth 2/3 my monthly rent.

You should be the one insulted that he's asking you for money when he won't even help himself, instead he'll be the one who ends the friendship by being insulted by how bloody rich you actually are without helping him.

You definitely should not give him a cent, but I think the way you wrote that e-mail itemizing your expenses is the exact wrong way to go about it. Man up and just tell him to man up.
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