Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Other Other Topics Discussion of arts & entertainment, pop culture, food & drink, health and exercise, fashion, relationships, work, and just about anything else in life except poker, sports, religion and politics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #101
Vantek
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Estonia
Posts: 5,850
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

The question here isn't wether you should give him what he is asking for, the question is, is that going to do him any good. I'd estimate the rate of going to South America, out of all places, to "find yourself", at the age of 27, while having 12K debt, having been partying and blowing coke recently, as well as recieving therapy for 3K, working out in the end, is what, about one in... hundred billion?

I think you should help your friend - by carefully introducing him to the solid, permament, impenetrable thing called "reality", before he inevitably comes crashing down straight into it. Money would only fuel his fantasy trip to rise in altidude and thus worsen the eventual impact.
Vantek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 10:00 AM   #102
LetMeLive
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
LetMeLive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tesla
Posts: 25,137
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
People never "find themselves"; that's just the language of self-entitlement turning into self-pity.
this is a great sentence. ty
LetMeLive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 10:31 AM   #103
diddy!
Twas diddyeinstein
 
diddy!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,853
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
How would you actually respond to the email request without seeming too cold?
Wait, what? He didn't even have the balls to ask you in person? As someone that's terrible with debt, I would never ask my friends for a loan because I know my problems are my own and would 100% rather piss off some rando credit collecting people then my friends. I gotta go with no, especially if it's going to cause friction in your marriage (which it will). Dude's an adult, time for him to act like one.

And it still pisses me off he didn't discuss this over beers or something, but chose to email you asking for 10k.
diddy! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 10:41 AM   #104
Abbaddabba
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,770
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
You guys are lousy friends (lol @ Micro-bob ''considering'' helping out if he had a million bucks. Laughable). If one of my top 3 closest friends that I had known for 27 years came to me and asked for help, I'd do what I could do help him. However, him going to South America to ''find himself'' is pathetic, and one of the premises that you help him out is that he can forget all about South America.

What I would do, in your situation, is I'd give him a phone call and have a heart-to-heart conversation with him and tell him you can help him out, however he has to get a job, pay back the CC debt immediately (like Henry said, consider doing that yourself) and put up a a serious life-plan. And as I said, he can forget about South America, so that $ is out of the question. Talk to the other friend he asked, dicuss some terms, and help him out with 6k~ each. That covers CC debt and the psychiatrist bill. Friends you've known for as long as 27 years is not something you should take lightly (I'm guessing you've been through at least some **** over these years.), and you describe him as a good guy who would walk through fire for you had you asked him to do it. One of your closest friends is in a heap of trouble and he's asking for your help. If you brush him off and consider him ''no longer a friend'' like some of the people in this thread has spouted off, you're a horrible friend.


A friend would let him stay at their place until he got back on his feet.
A friend would help him get a job, and deal with the debt (either by consolidating it at lower rates, or declaring bankruptcy).
A friend would pay for food if he doesnt have money for it.

Only a sucker would hand over $20k with no questions asked.



I would loan (and probably give) $7500 if I though their reasons for needing it were legitimate, but these circumstances are ****ing ridiculous.
Abbaddabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:06 AM   #105
diddy!
Twas diddyeinstein
 
diddy!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,853
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Tried to edit my post, but it was too late. If you do decide to this (and I think you will ) pay for everything directly. Even if he does have the best of intentions, seeing his bank account go from $0 to 20k overnight will almost certainly lead to huge problems (coke binge, irresponsible spending, etc.)
diddy! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:10 AM   #106
lozen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lozen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,190
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

What will happen here and you will make the mistake many will make.

Most of this is credit card debt. Why should you bail him out. Overseas to teach no win for either of you.
If you loan the money kiss most of it good bye along with the friend.

Chances are you will loan it to him and 1 year from now say I wish I listened to you guys
lozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:19 AM   #107
Triumph36
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Triumph36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Osi Ukin'-yora
Posts: 40,914
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

while i do think that loaning him this money is quite irresponsible, i am always amazed at the amount of tyranny and self-righteous judgment that people on 2p2 wish to exercise over their friends in situations like this - as if 'helping him out' means 'do exactly what i tell you to do and nothing else'. spare me the pity stories about how you were destitute and did those very things or just how clever you can be at getting yourself out of financial holes.
Triumph36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:24 AM   #108
dalerobk
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,933
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
while i do think that loaning him this money is quite irresponsible, i am always amazed at the amount of tyranny and self-righteous judgment that people on 2p2 wish to exercise over their friends in situations like this - as if 'helping him out' means 'do exactly what i tell you to do and nothing else'. spare me the pity stories about how you were destitute and did those very things or just how clever you can be at getting yourself out of financial holes.
Triumph,

I generally agree with you. However, I don't think it's very self-righteous to criticize someone who is massively in the hole (and asking you for money) for wanting to take what is essentially a vacation--financed by you of all things. I've never actually borrowed money from a non-financial institution, so I don't know. But I sure as hell would NOT propose going to South America should I be so desperate as to ask friends for money.
dalerobk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:34 AM   #109
Triumph36
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Triumph36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Osi Ukin'-yora
Posts: 40,914
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalerobk View Post
Triumph,

I generally agree with you. However, I don't think it's very self-righteous to criticize someone who is massively in the hole (and asking you for money) for wanting to take what is essentially a vacation--financed by you of all things. I've never actually borrowed money from a non-financial institution, so I don't know. But I sure as hell would NOT propose going to South America should I be so desperate as to ask friends for money.
fair enough. but i don't think it's necessarily fair to put it on those terms (a vacation), or to get all upset at him for having the gall to ask, as most people in this thread have. tweety implies that his friend has never tried to manipulate him in this fashion before, and it's not like you're friends with someone for 20+ years just to get 10k off him. is it irresponsible of him to ask this, given his behavior? sure. is it irresponsible to ask this, given what his plan is? absolutely. but it's not worth foaming at the mouth and giving him 20 other life options he should consider. sometimes we don't know what we want and sometimes we want things and don't know why we want them, and having 10k+ in credit card debt doesn't make someone ineligible to have desires.
Triumph36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:38 AM   #110
Ultim8Degen
banned
 
Ultim8Degen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Capucine FTW
Posts: 1,967
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

why can't he just declare bankruptcy?
Ultim8Degen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:44 AM   #111
dalerobk
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,933
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
fair enough. but i don't think it's necessarily fair to put it on those terms (a vacation), or to get all upset at him for having the gall to ask, as most people in this thread have. tweety implies that his friend has never tried to manipulate him in this fashion before, and it's not like you're friends with someone for 20+ years just to get 10k off him. is it irresponsible of him to ask this, given his behavior? sure. is it irresponsible to ask this, given what his plan is? absolutely. but it's not worth foaming at the mouth and giving him 20 other life options he should consider. sometimes we don't know what we want and sometimes we want things and don't know why we want them, and having 10k+ in credit card debt doesn't make someone ineligible to have desires.
Agreed, and it seems like the friend did give OP every out possible for denying the money. On the other hand, the friend did put OP in a very awkward spot.
dalerobk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:46 AM   #112
dalerobk
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,933
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultim8Degen View Post
why can't he just declare bankruptcy?
Seriously, wtf? Do you guys understand the implications of declaring bankruptcy? Bankruptcy should be an absolute last resort, not done to get out of 12k of debt. The dude could wait tables for 50 hours a week and live in a **** hole of an apartment and pay off this debt in less than two years, if not sooner.
dalerobk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 12:05 PM   #113
gobbomom
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
gobbomom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: gobboville
Posts: 7,263
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety View Post

How would you actually respond to the email request without seeming too cold?


Seriously, giving his e-mail any serious consideration was your downfall. He's attempting to use you and take advantage of your friendship and your not being able to see it shows what a good guy you are. A drowning person tries to pull others down with them, and your friend needs to hit rock bottom before he'll change his ways. Everyone itt has given excellent advice, I really hope you can see that Tweety.
gobbomom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 12:13 PM   #114
Mr. Philosophy
grinder
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 408
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I have a question about the therapy bills. How did he rack up 3k in bills without the therapist cutting him off earlier? Usually, when a therapist has not been paid after a few sessions they will not see the patient anymore. And a few sessions does not add up to 3k most of the time. My guess is if he had 1k in debt to the therapist he would have been cut off.
Mr. Philosophy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 12:13 PM   #115
Punker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Punker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: McJesus saves
Posts: 7,712
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Seconded to the poster who asked why he needs to go down there and find a job (and especially in South America - teaching jobs there pay crap). When I lived in Canada, I arranged a teaching job in Korea in about 2 weeks that paid something like US$2200/month that came with a round trip ticket and an apartment. I didn't need any $5000 to get started, and could probably have saved enough over a one year period to pay back $15K.

I'd ask him to do this, and tell him that after he'd been there and working for a month, I'd be willing to pay half his CC/therapist bill. This would be understanding that we'd probably not be close friends ever again (as I'm essentially treating him like a child, meaning we can't really be the same again in either of our eyes), but knowing I'd at least helped someone important to me get their life together.
Punker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 12:35 PM   #116
tuq
TEEJ
 
tuq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southern Hemisphere
Posts: 46,363
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Philosophy View Post
I have a question about the therapy bills. How did he rack up 3k in bills without the therapist cutting him off earlier? Usually, when a therapist has not been paid after a few sessions they will not see the patient anymore. And a few sessions does not add up to 3k most of the time. My guess is if he had 1k in debt to the therapist he would have been cut off.
The more I think about it, the more unanswered questions there are (although Tweety may have those answers and just withheld for the sake of brevity). Such as, are these debts real? Does Tweety and other friend plan to ask for proof of these debts or just take him at his word? He could have anywhere from $0-100K+ in debt and have no plans to address it and just pocket the money.

Weird also that Tweety and he may go way back and may share the occasional e-mail but they only speak once per year? Does this guy not have closer acquaintances? Or has he 1) already hit them up, or 2) they aren't the type to be able to do this? The whole thing reeks of "Tweety is about to learn a life lesson" as it seems like this guy looking to cash out of this relationship, literally.

By the way, I don't really agree that loaning a friend money permanently alters the fabric of that relationship. I've borrowed up to $10K from friends and paid it back and loaned out similar amounts as well. It could make things awkward during that time if there isn't an open dialog about it, but it really depends on the people and the strength and trust within the relationship as to how it will be affected. But I sure as hell didn't borrow $10K so I could go "find myself".
tuq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 12:59 PM   #117
Mahatma
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 353
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

My take on this:

Handing over $10k to someone who is bad with money is horrible. Sure he's a good friend, honourable et al, but there is a possibility that drugs have screwed his mind and turned him into a desperate coke and dope fiend. In which case he'll not act rationally and will do everything to satisfy his own self-interest. That's the nature of addicts imo. Also, there is little chance of an immediate change in his behaviour and irresponsibility. Go with a supervisory role to help him sort himself out with a free room or something.

"A true friend stabs you in the front."

Sharpen that knife and do it for his benefit and yours. If you leave him be, his situation will probably get worse, and if you ship him $10, your situation will get worse.
Mahatma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 01:22 PM   #118
Vantek
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Estonia
Posts: 5,850
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
if you ship him $10
Haha, that would be hilarious.
Vantek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 01:43 PM   #119
dknightx
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
dknightx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: not dmk
Posts: 6,498
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

To the person that mentioned JET, he is a little too old for JET and probably wouldnt get past the first round of cuts ... its actually really difficult (and seemingly random) to make it through the JET selection process. Regardless, there are A TON of english teaching jobs in Asia that will easily pay you $20-35 an hour (depending on where) and give you 30-40 hours a week, which is definitely a big enough income to start saving and paying someone back.

That said, 4 years ago, I lent a friend 15k interest free for a gambling debt he racked up on another friends online poker account (in 1 day might i add). At the time he didn't have a job, and 15k was about 1/2 my net worth, but I was young, no responsibilities, and knew the person well, and knew their personality well enough to trust them. Still, for legality sake we drafted up a contract (with the help of 2+2) stating the exact payment plan, and we are now on the last year of the re-payment, and there has never been any issue whatsoever. We don't even talk about it really, just every month he hands me a check or cash.
dknightx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 02:15 PM   #120
theBruiser500
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,920
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

i havne't read the whole thread or all ofyour OP but from experience i will say... STRONGLY consider just giving him the money if you are going to loan it to him.
theBruiser500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 02:29 PM   #121
emmpee
grinder
 
emmpee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: upstate
Posts: 528
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBruiser500 View Post
i havne't read the whole thread or all ofyour OP but from experience i will say... STRONGLY consider just giving him the money if you are going to loan it to him.
Thanks for your input, nobody had mentioned anything similar in the previous 118 replies.
emmpee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 02:36 PM   #122
BartJ385
veteran
 
BartJ385's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: you gotta be joking
Posts: 2,668
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Want some sound advice, OP?

Don't ask anonymous poker players such a question in an online forum!

Seriously, the odds of getting even one useful shred of advice (other than what you already thought of yourself) is close to zero.

Ask real people.
BartJ385 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 02:38 PM   #123
dknightx
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
dknightx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: not dmk
Posts: 6,498
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

[ ] anonymous poker players are real people
dknightx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 02:42 PM   #124
EvilSteve
 
EvilSteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: 2p2 afterlife
Posts: 13,198
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartJ385 View Post
Want some sound advice, OP?

Don't ask anonymous poker players such a question in an online forum!

Seriously, the odds of getting even one useful shred of advice (other than what you already thought of yourself) is close to zero.

Ask real people.
[ ] useful advice from a real person
EvilSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 02:42 PM   #125
Hume
old hand
 
Hume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,537
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

In the history of OOT there has not been a "should I loan friend money"-thread where the answer was clearer than here.
Hume is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive