Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Other Other Topics Discussion of arts & entertainment, pop culture, food & drink, health and exercise, fashion, relationships, work, and just about anything else in life except poker, sports, religion and politics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2009, 03:01 AM   #76
shipontilt
self-banned
 
shipontilt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: I think I'm Sam Hurd.. Larry Hoover
Posts: 12,211
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

if i was him i would just file a chapter 7. furthermore, if my bankruptcy got dimissed and i wanted to move out of the country i would just not pay any of my bills. wtf is gonna happen? lol.
shipontilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 03:06 AM   #77
Bulletproof Monk
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bulletproof Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Best in the world at what I do
Posts: 22,218
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

he is probably planning to not come back from south america and wants some money to start himself off over there.

havent read thread so sry if its repeating
Bulletproof Monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 03:15 AM   #78
Bulletproof Monk
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bulletproof Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Best in the world at what I do
Posts: 22,218
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

oh yeah btw he isnt planning to pay off any loans etc... good chance he doesnt even owe any money in the states.

and when you say no you guys can still be friends. there is even some chance he is doing this because he wants your attention in some weird way and wants you to notice that he is not ok.
Bulletproof Monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 03:21 AM   #79
loK2thabrain
Tiger > Jack
 
loK2thabrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23,199
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuq View Post
But are you anyone's top 3 friend?

Pretty much everything has been covered extensively, but the one point that was lightly touched on that resonates the most with me is that this loan would do nothing more than enable his lifetime of degeneracy.

I wonder in what context the whole "I'm selling shoes on Ebay" came up? Was it in the e-mail asking for the "loan" or in some recent conversation? If it was in the e-mail then he's playing at your emotions, and if so that plus his gameplan to leave the country to "find himself" proves that he is woefully out of touch with reality or at least willfully avoiding it.

No matter how bad the economy at the moment, if he is literate and presentable there is always a job for him if he looks for it doing something. That he evidently isn't trying very hard should be a concern to you. What are the odds he goes to South America and randomly grows a work ethic? Pretty slim to none, it's much more likely he'd chew coca leaves all day and fall in with some liberation army in Chile.

Also the long nights of doing blow would concern me if I were you. You only see him once per year, how do you know he doesn't have a problem with this? He may not but damn, the dude is in his mid-30s and partying like it's ten years ago. Gotta grow out of that sometime.

Final point: some posters have said he can "go to South America and make money there to send back to you". That is exactly backwards. He'd make a fraction there of what he could make here doing the same thing. Mexicans and Indians come here to make money and send back to their country and family; Americans don't go to Bolivia to support their family here unless it is a highly specialized skill and it pays American dolares.

Bottom line, you sound like a loyal friend and he sounds like he's in a bad spot, but you'd only be helping him escape the reality he needs to face eventually.

Yeah this +

If I were you I'd make a deal with him that if he can get a job and hold it down for 1 year, and save at least (x) amount of money (or pay (x) amount of debt off) then you will loan him some money. I don't think you should pay all of his debt, but that's up to you in the end.

If he can't buckle down for one year now, with extra motivation to do so, he will NOT do it in Africa after getting his slate wiped clean + 5k in his pocket.
loK2thabrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 03:33 AM   #80
Gin 'n Tonic
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Gin 'n Tonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Reclining my seat
Posts: 6,306
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I’m not sure that you’ll be doing your friend any favours long term by doing this.

He doesn’t seem to have much of a work ethic, or any real idea what he’s going to do with his life – nebulous teaching plans notwithstanding.

It sounds to me like he needs to spend some time flipping burgers, doing bar work in the evenings and generally grinding out life for a few years until he’s debt free and has restored his self respect.

He needs a reality check, not a ‘get out of jail free’ card.

A loan at this point is too easy for him imo, and is likely to fund further degeneracy. I would also be concerned with his mental state if he cannot ultimately pay it off.

I’m with EvilSteve on this – if there’s an amount that you and your wife can agree to give him to help him onto the right track, go right ahead, but forget any kind of loan.
Gin 'n Tonic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 03:47 AM   #81
loK2thabrain
Tiger > Jack
 
loK2thabrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23,199
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Oh, and also, it sounds like you might be dealing with someone who has a big drug problem. If he does, there is no way you would know about it and he would not tell you that in his email because there is no way that helps his chances of getting the loan from you.

I'm sorry, but even the best of friends turn into lying d-bags when dealing with a drug addiction.

Trust me, I'm a former lying d-bag drug addict myself and I lied to my best best best friends repeatedly.

You might think, well my buddy is different. He would never lie to me like that. WRONG. Drug addicts do not care about anything other than always having their drug of choice.

He might be hoping that you'll loan him the money, and just ship it straight to his account and expect him to pay off the bills on his own. And he might just be tickled with excitement at the thought of having enough money to buy small mountains of blow for the next year.

Even if you do loan him this money right away, YOU need to get these bill statements and pay them directly from your account. DO NOT get lazy if you're going to do this. Also buy the ticket to Africa if you send him.

Maybe he's not a drug addict at all. But the sad truth is you have no way of knowing so you need to proceed with extreme caution and skepticism. It might feel dirty to treat such a close friend like this but you're not doing him any favors if you don't.
loK2thabrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 03:51 AM   #82
adsman
mazungu
 
adsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: pushingrubberdownhill.com
Posts: 6,198
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I'm with LFS. I can't believe he asked you this in a ******g email for chrissakes. He didn't even have the nads to pick up the phone??

A few weeks before I opened my bar I thought that I was in the crap. I'd ordered all the sound equipment etc, spent roughly $20,000, and then it looked like our license agreement fell through. I was in deep trouble. I rang a very close friend back home and explained the situation. I said that there would be a possibility that I may have to ask him for help depending on how things panned out. His response? No problem, whatever you need. In the end I didn't need his help, but knowing that it was there was a huge moral support for me in that time.

But I think that's a little different than wanting cash to clear some debt and blowing off to South America to find yourself. Finding yourself involves drawing on resources that you didn't know you had. It sounds like this is a great situation for him to find himself, ie get his freaking life in order. Going off to South America isn't finding himself - it's what's known as running away.
adsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 03:51 AM   #83
loK2thabrain
Tiger > Jack
 
loK2thabrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23,199
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Lastly, how pissed would his friend be if he found this thread and realized that if this was before the time of computers and forums such as this, you almost surely would have ended up loaning him the monies within a fairly short amount of time and without many, if any, demands beyond what he set up himself...haha.
loK2thabrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 04:16 AM   #84
happyhappyhappy
veteran
 
happyhappyhappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: pine tree state
Posts: 2,234
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I think he is out of touch with reality as well.

Five years ago I was in a similar situation and I was sleepless for a couple nights thinking about asking my grandmother for $1k to get back on track. 10k, from a hard working friend, part of which is going to having cash in hand after getting to South America, is pretty laughable.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is in drug debt, or just planning to continue abusing and using South America as a vehicle to not be in contact after he gets the money. Just a guess, but not as out of touch of one as this email is.
happyhappyhappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 04:50 AM   #85
Henry17
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Henry17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: You've got a friend in me
Posts: 27,716
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
There is no way out of this, imo. You and he are no longer friends, whatever you do.
This. Once a friend asks another friend for money they will cease to be friends regardless of what happens.

Also the story seems fishy. Having known a decent amount of ****-ups who end up doing the teaching abroad thing they all left Canada with teaching jobs arranged. None of them went to Africa but there is no reason to suspect that Asia and South America are established locally before travelling while Africa requires that you show up and find a job in person. The trip seems like a vacation / escape -- more like a backpacking though Europe situation than any real financial opportunity.

Paying off the credit card debt makes no sense. I'm big on personal responsibility but asking someone for $20k is not really a sign of someone who is personally responsible. I don't believe the money is for CC debt repayment. If I was going to give (not loan) the money I would want to pay the CC myself, I would close them myself, and I would insist on having the ability to monitor his Equifax to ensure he did not reapply for credit.

Lastly there is blow involved. I have nothing against drugs but they are just like gambling in that the vast majority of people involved are degenerates who have no self-control or personal responsibility. Blow isn't cheap and if he is doing it with girls odds are they are probably not paying for it. Even on the conservative estimate each of those nights you heard of cost him 2-5% of what he is asking you for now. That would make it difficult for me to feel the need to help him.
Henry17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 05:35 AM   #86
Sniiii
old hand
 
Sniiii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,533
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

You guys are lousy friends (lol @ Micro-bob ''considering'' helping out if he had a million bucks. Laughable). If one of my top 3 closest friends that I had known for 27 years came to me and asked for help, I'd do what I could do help him. However, him going to South America to ''find himself'' is pathetic, and one of the premises that you help him out is that he can forget all about South America.

What I would do, in your situation, is I'd give him a phone call and have a heart-to-heart conversation with him and tell him you can help him out, however he has to get a job, pay back the CC debt immediately (like Henry said, consider doing that yourself) and put up a a serious life-plan. And as I said, he can forget about South America, so that $ is out of the question. Talk to the other friend he asked, dicuss some terms, and help him out with 6k~ each. That covers CC debt and the psychiatrist bill. Friends you've known for as long as 27 years is not something you should take lightly (I'm guessing you've been through at least some **** over these years.), and you describe him as a good guy who would walk through fire for you had you asked him to do it. One of your closest friends is in a heap of trouble and he's asking for your help. If you brush him off and consider him ''no longer a friend'' like some of the people in this thread has spouted off, you're a horrible friend.
Sniiii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 06:43 AM   #87
Subfallen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Subfallen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: farther back
Posts: 7,243
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

No money, and don't feel guilty in the slightest. People never "find themselves"; that's just the language of self-entitlement turning into self-pity.
Subfallen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 06:50 AM   #88
Tweety
adept
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 738
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27offsuit View Post

What are your wife's thoughts on this guy? You must have discussed him once or twice.
Really likes him a lot, but thinks he's way too lost for a guy in his mid 30s and he's one of those people who is always trying to "find himself."
Tweety is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 06:54 AM   #89
Grue
Pooh-Bah
 
Grue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: https://unstuckpolitics.com
Posts: 5,667
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

if he hasn't found himself by his mid 30s he never will
Grue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 07:04 AM   #90
SneakyFerret
Pooh-Bah
 
SneakyFerret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ma-yo Days Be Sunny
Posts: 4,885
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
He needs the loan for: (1) paying off about $12k in credit card debt, for which the interest rates are about to go up, (2) paying for about $3k worth of therapist bills which are not covered by his crappy insurance policy, and (3) $5k for a plane ticket and pocket cash to go to South America and change his identity and never pay you back.
fyp...

Honestly though, I have at least 2 friends like this, and I'd do anything for them in a heartbeat.
SneakyFerret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 07:22 AM   #91
Henry17
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Henry17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: You've got a friend in me
Posts: 27,716
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Enabling a ****-up is not helping him. I had a friend like this and for a few years I just gave him money. The result was that he did nothing to fix his life. After I cut him off he finally started to get his life together. If a friend comes to me needing money because something happened to him then I'll help him out. If a friend comes to me needing money because they are a complete life failure then giving them money is not helping them.
Henry17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 07:25 AM   #92
allurit
banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,779
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
interest-free loan
stopped reading here, don't do it.

what is the point? best case scenario you get your money back. but you already have your money now...

if you trust him, charge him interest...if you don't, then either give him the money or tell him no. interest free loan is stupid.
allurit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 07:49 AM   #93
Sciolist
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Sciolist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 17,463
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I wouldn't hesitate to lend this to people I have considered good friends for most of my life. I trust my judgement in this kind of thing. However, I would set a repayment schedule, not say "yeh, pay back whenever".

If his life is pretty ****ed up right now, perhaps you loaning him money is sufficient reason for him to fix it. If I owed a long standing friend that kind of money and had no way to repay it, I would go out and find a way to repay it.
Sciolist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:00 AM   #94
Abbaddabba
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,770
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

tell him to secure the job, and then declare bankruptcy.
Abbaddabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:53 AM   #95
Jay.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Jay.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 8,447
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

If there were no better alternatives, i.e. he files bankruptcy I would offer him the money only if he sets out a plan for his life and a way to pay you back. I'm not interested in getting the money back just more him realising he needs to have a plan for his future of getting his **** sorted to not get back into this point but in even more debt.

In the past i've been approached like this from close friends. 2 out of the 3 i borrowed without thought, the last one i walked through a plan with him. Only the latter has ever paid me back and now while none of it is much money to me it's a pink elephant in the room since they are feeling guilty.

edit: after reading your follow ups i would absolutely not lend him. He's already in a situation in which he can fix his life if he needs to, but he just wants a clean slate in south america. I would try to help him by planning how he can pay off his debt or paying for him to see a financial advisor, nothing more.

Last edited by Jay.; 01-08-2009 at 09:03 AM.
Jay. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 09:05 AM   #96
dalerobk
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,933
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticKnight View Post

PS. call me a dic*, but I'm also calling the "other" friend to see exactly what his email said. I mean what did he say to the other friend....."I'm writing you second because you are my second best friend." I'd really want to know how up front this guy is. If he is pitching you both with "best friend" line, it is clearly a guilt pressure play.

If he wrote your friend a different note, appealing for money and speaking of his long-standing friendship (but not saying he was his best friend) than I would be inclined to find his request more sincere.
I agree with talking to the other friend (and every other friend you know in common with this guy) but for different reasons. Make sure everything seems to check out. My loser brother used to ask me for money. He would say something like, I'm just behind on this bill, this bill, and the other. I need $1,200 and my life will be perfect. I'll pay you back in exactly 1 month. Then I talked to me sister and he was saying the same thing but for $600 and then the same thing to my parents but for $1,800. Clearly something else was going on and there was no way he was gonna pay us all back a total of $3,600 in one month.

Also, as someone else said, this guy sounds like he's dabbled with drugs. Who knows what's going on.

And you obviously don't want to lend him the money, so don't. If the money means something to you, and you're not comfortable parting with it, then don't. What's the worst that happens to this guy? He has to find a job and work here in the U.S.? So the **** what? Welcome to reality. I mean if he were about to be homeless or needed money for food, it would be different.

As for what to tell him, tell him, "I have a child, who is more important than you."

Edit: I forgot to mention that my brother was involved in drugs, just as this guy might or might not be.

Last edited by dalerobk; 01-08-2009 at 09:17 AM.
dalerobk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 09:07 AM   #97
StevieG
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
StevieG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: b-more
Posts: 6,792
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Think laterally about this.

He's asking for money. You don't want to do is turn away a needy friend. So don't. Just offer your friendship, not money.

Get the other friend who has been asked for $10k. Sit down with Mr. Blues, go over his credit card statements. Then offer to have him live with the two of you for six months (three months each) to get himself together.

He has to help out around the house, he has to let you two monitor his accounts.

If he's stopped with the coke, if he really has reduced his expenses, and he is working, then the debt will vanish quickly. He'll also realize what a solid thing you've done for him.

But if he's really just looking for the money, you'll know soon enough, and you can have a clean conscience that you tried to help.

Last edited by StevieG; 01-08-2009 at 09:14 AM.
StevieG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 09:10 AM   #98
dalerobk
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,933
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by il_martilo View Post
Bankruptcy and give him his plane ticket as a gift. this is not even close IMO
Also, for those of you saying bankruptcy, $12,000 in credit card is a very small amount of money to be declaring bankruptcy over. It's actually laughable. The guy would be much better off just getting a job and paying his debt than ****ing up his credit for the next decade.
dalerobk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 09:26 AM   #99
killa
huge dick
 
killa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,990
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Its fine if you wish to give him 20k, but like most said consider it like you are giving it away. If you have 20k disposable that you will not miss if you never get it back.
killa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 09:35 AM   #100
Hawklet2
adept
 
Hawklet2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,111
Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

If OP decides to give this guy 10k, it's proof that no one will ever listen to advice about anything.
Hawklet2 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive