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Old 01-12-2009, 03:28 AM   #226
Answer Anderstood
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

You don't have to leave the USA to find yourself.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:39 AM   #227
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by JokersAttack View Post
I think it's reasonable that someone who's had some problems might want to get away for a few months to try and find some peace.

I think it's reasonable too. That's why I suggest he do what he's perfectly capable of doing on his own and work towards that escape. There's absolutely no reason why his friends should have to finance this for him. The only thing holding him back is that he doesn't feel like getting a job. He kept on partying while his CC bills kept growing and his money kept running out. And he did absolutely nothing to try to change that except doing things like selling his own stuff when he got desperate.

If the person is able to hold a job, and he obviously is since he intends to do that in S.A. supposedly, then there's no reason why he can't do all this on his own. None.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:42 AM   #228
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

This is hilarious. OP gets pounded on by everyone for even thinking of giving his friend the money. Eventually OP comes to his senses and posts that he is following our advice. The thread drops out of sight, and then is resurrected by people telling him that he should be giving his friend the money. It's bizarre-O-day in OOT.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:44 AM   #229
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Ummm, when did the thread drop out of site? It's only been up for a few days.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:48 AM   #230
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Haha, that was funny. But it's perfectly understandable, because turns out OP is effin loaded and 10K means almost nothing to him.

Which still doesn't mean that I think he should give money, but he has come off incredibly cheap.
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:30 AM   #231
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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I was totally on board w/not lending him money until I read that you have 900k in debt. I guess it seems counterintuitive kinda but someone w/the means to accrue that much debt should have 10k for one for their closest friends.
lol at the "You're already a mil in debt, what's 10k more argument".

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Originally Posted by JA
you deny him, which may cause him to lose all hope of a clean start and relapse, how would you feel then?
Seriously? So it would be their fault? Not the guy who continued to use drugs and live outside his means to put himself in this situation? He's an adult, he's responsible for his actions.

Last edited by diddy!; 01-12-2009 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:24 PM   #232
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Originally Posted by JokersAttack View Post

I hardly think he is planning a coke adventure most of the time here
Have you ever been to Central or South America and hung out with expats or other foreigners living there? Even for people with pretty good self control, this is degen city my friend. His problems will only get much worse here, he will make virtually nothing and easily run into like minded party people, ridiculously cheap coke and alcohol. Oh, and don't forget about casinos and hookers.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:33 PM   #233
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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Have you ever been to Central or South America and hung out with expats or other foreigners living there? Even for people with pretty good self control, this is degen city my friend. His problems will only get much worse here, he will make virtually nothing and easily run into like minded party people, ridiculously cheap coke and alcohol. Oh, and don't forget about casinos and hookers.
Hookers, blow, booze, and gambling. Anyone wanna loan me $20K? I need to go find myself.
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:29 PM   #234
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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She has a place to live (rents a place) and we have helped her plenty of times in the past.

I'm not doing the loan. The advice in this thread has been very good.
Come on Tweety - we need to hear the friends reponse to your e-mail.

And pics of Sandy, please, if you wouldn't mind. Body only would be OK.
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:48 AM   #235
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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And pics of Sandy, please, if you wouldn't mind.
I would mind, sorry.
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Old 01-18-2009, 02:06 AM   #236
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

if he is gonna teach in south america he will make terrible money + wont be able to pay u back
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:32 AM   #237
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

If you love your friend, you won't give him the money. he's stalled long enough, and giving him money is only going to make things worse.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:30 AM   #238
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

The decision has already been made. There will be no loan. My own finances are too tight right now for starters (I've committed to a major renovation of a new apartment we bought that will cost north of $400k), plus I don't think it's appropriate anyway.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:48 AM   #239
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I started off on the side of no loan but as pieces of extra information come in I switched to loan or end friendship. You can't live a pseudo-baller life and then not help out a friend who needs money -- then again you can't live a baller life and be in debt to dad either but that doesn't seem to stop OP. Once you start blowing large amounts of money indiscriminately on stuff the only way to say no is if you think the guy is a complete loser which then opens up the question of why have you remained friends with someone who you think is a complete loser.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:07 AM   #240
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

this is definitely the worst post ever on the internet. Not only is is gloriously full of "made up" information (facts?), but it is a grammatical fucxing nightmare.

did you just decide to write some random ****, present it as truths/solid advice, and hope no one notices?

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This thread is ridiculous, and full of some of the same people that would probably get pissed if they bought dinner for their girlfriend and didn't go dutch.

This is your friend, Tweety. Only you can judge how bad he needs this money, versus how badly he needs to hit rock bottom before he can rise again. Of course he should go out and get a job, thats the easy answer. The hard answer is realizing that in most of these cases, your friend has been so disillusioned by life that he himself has developed a serious psychological disorder (in most cases severe undiagnosed depression). The real way to look at this is to evaluate the three most obvious paths for what will benefit your friend the most. These 3 paths are clinical, natural course, and diversionary.

The clinical path would be one which involves more scientific treatment involving drugs, psychiatrists, etc. This path is an incredibly hard path to take but can be effective and requires the full cooperation of your friend. It can be beneficial in terms of stopping your friend from an absolutely terrible life, however serious psychosomatic medications often can have some very sad long term side effects, but he may be a more contributing member of society than otherwise.

The natural course path involves simply not helping your friend at all and letting him learn the meaning of what his life should be. He may or may not be your friend after this, and this doesn't always work. He can end up a scourge on society depending on how hard he falls. The essential idea is to let him be as self destructive as hed like until his very survival is threatened. At that point, darwinian nature will coerce him to either perish or adapt how he behaves to live. The upside is that an experience like this is truly rewarding in terms of accomplishments later on in life, however the serious risk is that there can be a spiral into actual psychological derangement, and he could end up homeless or worse.

The third is his proposed idea of going off to South America and fulfilling some sort of fantasy that he thinks is the right move for him. This will certainly take his mind off life, give him some sort of false purpose while he wastes valuable time. It will definitely be an enriching experience, however it may not address any of the chronic faults that have guided him to this point. That being said, life is ****ty and all the things happening at once is certainly hard to bear for anyone. Theres merit, the upside to this approach is that it will forestall any dire situations for the time being. The downside is that you may have only masked the symptoms, while serious underlying personal issues go unaddressed and can easily relapse when he feels his South American joyride should end.

Ultimately, as a friend please ignore all the above posts contending to the size of the cash loan. Money while an important factor of life is such a terrible thing to make decisions upon. If you save this friend the dividends paid will far surpass anything you could do with the money or effort spent.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:41 AM   #241
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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I started off on the side of no loan but as pieces of extra information come in I switched to loan or end friendship. You can't live a pseudo-baller life and then not help out a friend who needs money -- then again you can't live a baller life and be in debt to dad either but that doesn't seem to stop OP. Once you start blowing large amounts of money indiscriminately on stuff the only way to say no is if you think the guy is a complete loser which then opens up the question of why have you remained friends with someone who you think is a complete loser.
The co-op board of the building I bought an apartment in requires a 50% down payment. This is not unusual in Manhattan in nice neighborhoods. The apartment also needed a lot of work when we bought it, and that was reflected in the purchase price. My parents were very supportive, and we are making regular interest payments. My wife and I both work like dogs and make good incomes, thereby making us qualified to service the loan.

Loaning money with interest to your son to help him and his wife buy and repair a nice home for them and their young daughter is a bit different than giving $10 grand with no job, no income, and no life plan to go blow in South America on God knows what. If you don't think so then we will agree to disagree.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:43 AM   #242
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

The jab about the parents was not related to you not loaning the money -- in fact you should certainly not loan money to people when you owe yourself. The idea of going on expensive vacations when in debt to family on the other hand seems wrong to me.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:50 AM   #243
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I have done the following with this friend:

I told him I wasn't going to give him $10 grand. I told my cash situation for 09 was very tight as he knew, but even if it weren't, I told him I still didn't think it would be a good idea. I said i'd be ok with giving (not loaning) him a much smaller amount of money, say $500-$1,000, in order for him to get by for the next few weeks, but that me paying off his credit card debt for him so he could go down to Uruguay made no sense for either of us. I said I'd be more than happy to help him with a life plan, job search, or anything else like that. I also told him that if he were in true dire straits, such as needing an operation, that i would then give him money for that. But that's not the case here.

He then surprised me by telling me not to worry about it and that he wasn't sure if he was going to go down to South America anymore, and that he really just needed to "figure things out." I again reminded him that I'm here for him and that he could talk to me about anything, and that if he was totally broke and needed some short term cash to get through to the next month or whatever I would give it to him. But we ended the conversation with it being clear that i felt it was time for him to suck it up and get a bartending job, or something else like that to pay the bills until he figured out a more long term job.

The conversation ended on a good note and I have no regrets about the way I chose to handle it.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:50 AM   #244
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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The jab about the parents was not related to you not loaning the money -- in fact you should certainly not loan money to people when you owe yourself. The idea of going on expensive vacations when in debt to family on the other hand seems wrong to me.
We aren't going on any vacations this year.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:03 PM   #245
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

Your friend has put you in a ****ty situation, which isn't fair.

Normally I would lend to a top 3 friend who has always had my back in the past but: south america to "find self" + CC debt + blow = no.

I'd want to help out for a smaller amount and in a different way (ie. stay here and find a job) but negotiating a loan with a friend is a PITA. It won't end well.
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:42 PM   #246
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I had a friend with a 200 dollar a day percoset habit. He had some bad luck like your pal and dealt with it through numbing himself. He borrowed money off of anyone he had ever had so much as a coffee with for months. I had lent him around a g note until i saw i was merely enabling him and cut him off. I was pretty much the last person who said no, and he checked into rehab after that.

You made the correct decision to help him short term, but set your limit at a around a thou and if he looks like he is on a coke jag....suggest a rehab.
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Old 01-18-2009, 05:27 PM   #247
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

I'd rarely lend friends substantial amounts of money. Either gift it to them or just say no. If it wasn't for the drugs/partying stories, I'd be willing to gift the money (assuming it wasn't too much for me) to any of my close friends. But the drugs, partying, and leaving the country would make be lean against it.
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Old 01-18-2009, 05:29 PM   #248
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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One of my oldest, dearest friends has asked me and another very close friend in our circle for a $20,000 interest-free loan which he says he will pay back over the next few years. He needs the loan for: (1) paying off about $12k in credit card debt, for which the interest rates are about to go up, (2) paying for about $3k worth of therapist bills which are not covered by his crappy insurance policy, and (3) $5k for a plane ticket and pocket cash to go to South America and explore opportunities in international teaching.
/end thread
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:00 PM   #249
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

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I had a friend with a 200 dollar a day percoset habit.
Are you freaking kidding me, $200 a day of percoset? Wouldn't that be, like, dozens and dozens of pills? How are you not dead if you're actually doing that many painkillers?
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:45 PM   #250
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Re: Very close, old friend needs sizeable loan. Need advice

tweety - sounds like a solid conversation. And so quickly after asking you this guy now says he doesn't know if he's going to go to S.A. at all. It's pretty clear this guy doesn't know what the hell he wants nor has any plan (or when he does it's going to change perhaps by the next day). You offering your support and explaining how you would be there for him in such-and-such situation as well as telling him he needs to start to suck it up all sounded very productive to me.

I'm even to the point where I'm somewhat less disgusted and annoyed with your friend and am not rooting for him to pull through this. Updates are necessary now since we're so involved in this guy's life!!
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