I didn't for a long time, but now I'm not so much of a stick in the mud.

Daiya pepperjack is decent, esp. when melted in a quesadilla or grilled cheese. And they recently introduced a Mexican 3 cheese blend and spicy jack that are pretty good.

Kite Hill makes a pretty bomb Vegan ricotta

Chao is tasty, and has a very buttery flavor to it.

No need to whip garlic and herbs into Tofutti cream cheese. They already have it!

I am jealous! I have never found a garlic herb Tofutti.

I can't even eat regular ricotta, so I expect Kite Hill's ricotta would leave me cold.

I just tried their whipped cream cheese for the first time yesterday. Game freaking changer. Amazing stuff.

Mushrooms braised in red wine with carrots, onions, garlic, and thyme over mashed potatoes.

Kite Hill has a pumpkin cream cheese out right now. My wife and I went full pig and ate pretty much the whole tub in one sitting. Tastes just like pumpkin pie filling.

I really like everything that this guy puts out. While part of this video is largely pro meat consumption, I think there's a strong message for vegetarians/vegans as well to be more careful about how they get their protein.

Come on bro, this is the whole incomplete protein misnomer redressed. You don't need all 9 IAA's per meal but the video basically implies that you do. The liver will hold unutilized IAA's throughout the day until the missing ones are introduced and then protein synthesis resumes.

500 calories of seitan has over 100g of well-balanced IAA protein and contains more leucine than chicken. But yeah, if you don't want to put a tiny bit of effort in and ensure you get the protein you need, then just clock a dog and fire up the grill.

I did not get this from my viewing, I'm also curious what the misnomer is here.


This thread has plenty of evidence that people enter vegetarianism/veganism without understanding even basic nutritional needs which leads them to fail, this video addresses that very well imo.

The video is legit saying, "Well, eat this and get this, but then you need to eat this to get this IAA, and then you need to eat this to get this IAA, or you can just eat this meal of steak and eggs at 200 fewer calories and get the same thing" in one meal, when that's not how protein synthesis works.

Most people "fail" because vegan diets are restrictive and they just want to eat a pizza; they don't fail because they're not getting enough quality protein and getting sick. And if it's an ovo-lacto vegetarian, it's near impossible to not get everything you need without paying any real attention to detail in the diet.

But yeah, vegans who subsist on potato chips, Red Vines, vegan ice cream, and fries are not going to be healthy, but it's not like they're not aware of this.

The 'in one meal' was added by you, which is why it's not in quotes. You then argue against that statement (which you created) instead of the statement which you yourself quoted from the video and seem to agree with.



I will agree that if a vegetarian or vegan has their diet under control and is in great health, then this video is not for them, which is why in my original post on the video I mentioned People do fail at becoming vegetarian or vegan, and decline in health is a reason. I posted it for them, or anyone else curious about nutrition.

Seems to be lots more anecdotal "ever since I gave up eating animal products I feel so much better," than anecdotal "stopped being vegan/veggie due to declining health." Only people I know who've gone back to meat due to "declining health" are people whose blood work came back with low iron, and eating some meat was the easiest way for them to get their iron back up.

My sister bought this and we had it with the family on the weekend

https://www.verygoodbutchers.com/col.../stuffed-beast


It was better than Tofurky, which is first ingredient gluten, and then tofu instead of chickpeas. I made a gravy that helped a lot.

The chickpea + gluten combo reminded me that I need to make these chickpea cutlets again. They're good but still a little gluteny so will have to sub in some nutritional yeast and chickpea flour or maybe whole wheat flour.

Tonight I'm making tofu nuggets. Breaded tofu just as good as over processed fake chicken vegan nuggets from the grocery store. Basically this recipe but just seasoning with w/e

Fair enough. I watched that part again and they took the veggie meal part from Game Changers, so that's fair game. They should have used seitan, which is very close to chicken breast and lower in calories per gram of protein.

That said, I'm not really going to listen to a forage product manager lecture about why animal proteins are best. Like get that ass**** out of the video.

Nah, you didn't mention that. You said, "a strong message for vegans/vegetarians," which implies that you think most vegans and vegetarians do not have their diet under control and are not in great health by default, but whatever.

You have basically two types: those who do it for health reasons and those who do it for ethical reasons. The ethical types do not care, for the most part, and if they're fine with that then who am I to argue with them?

Is this some "vegan" YouTuber that got caught eating fish at a restaurant and cited a decline in health? Who are these people? Any links?

That's been my observation.

I like all these videos of, "If you're trying to be a world-class bodybuilder then animal protein is the best protein calorie-for-calorie, so obviously computer programmers should eat animals."

Even bodybuilder Dr. Israetel says that the difference between a vegan bodybuilder and a meat-eater bodybuilder might be only a pound of lean muscle mass after like a decade of training, if at all.

Can't remember the last time I had seitan, so good to know.


The implications are your own interpretation of my words, and not the words themselves, much like above. Let's quote myself for a third time I guess:

What I meant here is: "I think there's a strong message for vegetarians/vegans as well to be more careful about how they get their protein." Any "implications" that I am saying most vegan or vegetarians do not have their diet under control is unintended, and I don't really see it even mildly suggested. I understand that this thread has largely been attacking those two diets, so maybe the implication is there, but I'm not seeing it in the words we're discussing.


Ethical types should really watch the video then.

Myself, for one. I have another friend I suspect this is the case. I have an acquaintance who is forcing their children to be vegan and they are also the "anything 'real' food is automatically a better diet." I bet there's been several in this thread.

I am guessing that considering your dismissive first sentence here, any links would be brushed off far quicker than the time it would take me to actually find them.


It's been mine as well, especially for those who are successful with it.


This is a common way of dismissing claims like this, which is why I think the guy in the video takes extra time to break down that body builders are on the high end, doctor recommendations were for a long time on the low end. Most people are in the middle, but that's still pretty far off from the low end.



No "implications" or anything else. Here are my thoughts on the video: Not all protein is the same. Consuming meat for protein is the default situation for most people I run into. If they wish to cut out meat then they are cutting out their main source of protein, and should therefore look into stuff like this to ensure they get all of the protein they need. This will help not only in being more healthy, but also in maintaining sticking to the diet.

How often do you give messages like that to omnivores about how they get their protein, and/or other diet choices they make?

A lot. It's a frequent topic of conversation with several groups of my friends.

Bruh, there would be no compulsion to give a strong message to vegetarians/vegans if you thought their diets were sufficient to begin with.


Nah. The protein angle is so 1990's and they have an ethical position about meat, so better for them to watch Brenda Davis or someone like that.



Let's hear your story please. Be as detailed as possible.

Nah. I was asking for links to where you're getting your information from, not for you to search for some links. Sounds like anecdotal experiences between you and a couple of friends?


Like I opened with: the incomplete protein misnomer. IAA's are IAA's, and nearly every food contains all 9 IAA's, but not all foods have the same IAA make up, though, and that's the cornerstone of this video's argument.

On a vegetarian diet, the most mindless person will get sufficient protein each day (and by sufficient, I'm talking about sufficient levels of all IAA's), and vegans who eat a good variety of foods will get the same.

Like I said, the protein angle has been exhausted. Not a single veggie/vegan I've ever known has developed kwashiorkor, and I've known some pretty sketchy vegans, and this guy in the video is pretty lol using impoverished areas to assert that vegetable proteins are an inadequate source of protein.

There are much better angles than the played out protein one.


Why? Do you hang out with anorexics or bodybuilders or...?

"as well" is in the quote, implying that it was a strong message to my meat-eating friends, and myself, as well. There is no strong compulsion to share this with specifically vegans, although I think they would benefit the most from it. The video came up, it was good information, I shared it here as it discussed things discussed previously. This is not some attack that all vegans are unhealthy. I do not think that ALL vegans have a sufficient diet to begin with, because I do not think that ALL the practitioners of ANY major diet is going to have a sufficient diet to begin with. For people following any diet, and thinking they might not be getting enough protein, this is a good bit of information.

Still don't know what angle you're talking about as you've passed on expanding on what the misnomer is. Where I'm at right now is that you agree with the information in the video, but you think it is part of some overall meat consuming propaganda that I'm not aware of, so therefore a strawman should be set up and attacked.

It is great that there's better information than this out there, and they should watch that. That does not mean they wouldn't benefit from watching this too.


I'm going to pass for now.


A large part yes. Some channels I listen to, some trends as well.

Do you disagree with anything in the video?

Much like the video says, that's great.

I can't comment because I still don't know what the "protein angle" is.


Yes, and further "or"s. Nutrition is a common topic these days.

I think I've mentioned it in every post: that plant protein is incomplete and needs to be complemented to form complete proteins, but dat dere animal is a complete protein.

The information in the video constructs a strawman and he then attacks it. For example, using impoverished areas and using it to draw the conclusion that plant protein is insufficient.

Nah, just better to watch those who are aware of how IAA's work with regard to protein synthesis than a video showing a math problem and using it to mislead people.



Yes, of course.


That veggies/vegans have to be very mindful of protein because plant protein is an "incomplete" protein and thus will be challenging to get in enough protein. That's about as fresh as a Foghat concert.


Really? The only time I ever talk about nutrition is with other runners, and even then it's usually centered around when, what, and how much during a run.

OK, that narrows it down a lot, ty. Do you disagree with the entire premise that some protein sources provide higher quality protein than others, or just that animal protein does?


From the video: “In developed countries we tend to eat more protein as a total, so this is less of an issue. But research shows that quality of protein might still matter...” He specifically addresses this in order to avoid strawmanning and acknowledges that the infographic he's discussing is poorer nations.




That's great. I was vegan when I was hardcore into running, and thought that being vegan helped a ton at the time. That was in highschool/early college though, so quite some time ago. I am into a few physical activities now, so a lot of the conversations are probably rehashed. I've also noticed nutrition being brought up in completely unrelated scenarios though.

By quality protein, you mean a closer ratio of IAA's within a single food?



Fair enough, but there's that "quality protein" phrase again. The assertion is that a tighter ratio of IAA's is superior. Well, that would be the case if you eat only one meal a day with no variety in that meal - in that case, eat just chicken or just wheat gluten. Quality protein problem solved in both cases, but now there are a whole host of other nutritional issues in both situations. Whichever diet one subscribes to, a holistic approach is necessary.


Anytime you want to share your experiences, I'm willing to listen without judgment. I'm a pure vegetarian and not a vegan (the difference is less subtle than most think) and not militant nor proselytize.

Land o Lakes. I say this as somebody that thinks you are a really good poster and I enjoy your posts in other threads. I truly am saying this with nothing but the best intentions and I hope you don't interpret this as an attack. You seem unusually angry and hostile about a lot of things. I really wish you would chill out, for your own sake.

What threads does LoL post good in?

Sure, as well as calories per protein.

The premise of the video, from what I could tell, is that a lot of vegetarian or vegan diets are still going to be underneath the required protein intake, and even a lot of diets including meat will fall into that category as well, even taking into account multiple meals. People do not get enough variety of food typically. Do you think that the average vegan is going to get enough protein without putting much thought into their protein sources? (Once again, I am now convinced that for a period of my life I was not getting enough protein, so when talking about how dumb everyone who falls into that category must be, please remember it includes me.)

Part of the reason it interests me so much is because I am trying to slowly cut meat out of my diet, and I'd like to do it as healthily as possible.

Thanks, I don't mind sharing some here, we can do it in depth via pm sometime.

To be fair, I should have been a bit more diplomatic when posting a video that has a slab of meat in the thumbnail, and it sounds like a lot of the science in this video was previously used as a strawman against his chosen lifestyle. Also the history of this thread could easily lead someone to believe that I'm posting this as a way of saying why eating meat is superior in all ways.