Because social criticism of undesirable behaviours is how we limit the number of people who have those qualities. Just being accepting of pathetic behaviour leads to it spreading and becoming more common.

If a certian % tip is like mandatory for being a good citizen and will lead to economic collapse if people don't do it, then said tipping shouldn't be "optional" and it should be built into the bill.

What's the point of giving people the option of tipping low, or not at all, if said option is so ghastly terrible?

The reason we tend to get good service is because waiters are motivated by tips. You are a free rider. Not to mention, you are breaking an implied contract between you and the waiter. You are also doing it in a fraudulent manner by not disclosing your intent in advance even though you know it's material to the level of service your waiter will provide you.

Easy solution to these problems is for you to announce to the waiter ahead of time that you will be stiffing him. You won't do that, of course, because you are a coward. A free-riding, contract-breaking, fraudulent coward.

It isn't mandatory -- you can choose to be cheap and get ostracized by normal people.

I suppose I would tip 25 dollars on a 250 tab if the waiter's quality was as bad as the quality at a diner. In any other situation I'd never tip under 15%. Plus I don't really expect much from people or complain about bad service, so the waiter would have to be like completely ****ing awful for me to only tip 10%.

I think he's pretty ridiculous for tipping such a small percentage on a larger tab, but this is ******ed.

Sound rebuttal.

Why shouldn't I? If someone decides to blow their money on lotto tickets and their children starve, I will have moral outrage for them on how they "choose to spend their money". Why shouldn't I judge someone for how they spend their money?

BINGO... neither am i.

Please adjust your use of the term "normal people" to something less self affirming.

normal people actually fits in this case though rare as it is

ugh just include it in the price of the taxi fare.

I have mixed feelings on tipping cab drivers. Part of it though, is because NYC cab drivers generally suck. I give a buck or two if they are safe drivers and not yelling on their phones the whole trip. The service most of the time is so bad I don't tip, and twice in the last 6 months have just refused to even pay the fare.

They got you from point A to your point B of choice, alive and unharmed? What are the stories behind refusing to pay the fare?

But once they know the tips are always coming guaranteed 100% of the time at a certain level, this motivation disappears, DUCY?

You can't have your cake and eat it to.

The Euro system doesn't have tips in their culture but they pay the waiter a higher wage and the items in turn have a higher price. So in effect everyone is tipping a certain flat %. The good is that the waiters make a decent wage, the bad is that the motivation to do good service disappears.

The US system the waiter relies on tips because his non-tip wage is very low. He gets some bad tips, some great tips, some stiffs, but it all pretty much evens out to a wage he likes (there are tons of waiters, so clearly it's not too terrible of a job). The good with this system is it provides incentive to provide good service in hopes of improving the tip. The bad is that occasionally you will provide great service and not get a good tip.

So as you can see, both systems have pros and cons.

If it were possible to have a system of all pros and no cons, don't you think such would exist?

You are demanding the pros from both systems which is pretty absurd and just not gonna happen.

The reason for people getting so freaking pissed off about other people not tipping to a level they deem good is because they view low or non-tippers are somehow scamming the system or free loading off regular tippers.

If you actually believe that, then ya be outraged, but I think this is a fundamentally flawed belief.

Well, when spending and not spending harms others, ya I can see how one would get offended.

If that's how you choose to get outraged, out of curiosity where on the harm to others scale does tipping beneath a level deemed appropriate fit?

I could give guy $0, I instead choose to give him $25, but someone else thinks I should have given him at least $50 and thinks bad of me for it.

How exactly am I harming him by giving him $25 when I could give him exactly $0?

If I pass a beggar on the street and hand him $1 should people also think bad of me for not giving him a $5?

in before socialism (again)

yes

It was actually 3 times.

1. Went a mile in wrong direction, then made three wrong turns trying to get on the right track, more than doubling the meter. At the end I said "You don't expect me to pay for this, do you?" He said nothing so I just left.

2. Got in a cab at LaGuardia Airport. I live 5 min from the airport. The driver threw a fit and got out of the cab demanding the dispatcher/attendant give him a different fare b/c he waited for 20 minutes for a fare. After the dispatcher basically told him to **** off he took me on a roundabout way home, turning a $8 fare into $20. At the end I offered him $10 and when he didn't take it I got out. He screamed and ran after me, I told him to call the cops if he had a problem and I'd wait right there. We stared each down for about 5 min then he got back in and drove away.

3. At the end of the trip paused the meter rather than stopping it so the payment option screen wouldn't come up in the back. I told him to stop the meter because I was paying by credit card. He said the credit card reader wasn't working. When I said I had no cash he said he'd "try to fix it" and then pushed the correct button on the meter. I told him I hoped his country got nuked and I left.

"hope your country get nuked"

lmao

Oh, and another reason you should be tipping. Most waiters/waitresses are required to give a mandatory tip-out to their support staff (bussers and hostesses), their bartenders, the kitchen staff, and even floor managers in some places. If they have all of these, their tip-out can be 5% of their total sales or even higher in some cases. If you decide to be a jerkoff and not tip them, they are actually losing money out of their own pocket just to wait on your table.

Henry,

I agree with everything in your pro-tipping post except the bit about tax evasion. Everyone has to pay taxes and I see no reason why servers should be an exception.


Also, while I wish tipping were more merit-based I think it's value as merit based pay right now is limited. First, you see servers argue all the time that they need the money, it's how they make their living, so not tipping or under tipping is wrong no matter what. Second, in my experience when people don't tip or undertip part of the time it's because they're cheap and the rest of the time the server assumes they're cheap.

It's the only way to enforce such a ******ed custom ldo. Peer pressure and shame from everyone else who's dumb enough to be tricked into a tipping culture.

As a Canadian I'm pretty much against paying taxes. So much so that even if the administration of a tax avoidance scheme was greater than the tax liability I would still opt for avoidance. If I lived somewhere else I might have a different opinion.

There are very few instances where service is bad enough to warrant under tipping. It happens but as someone who basically doesn't cook I'd say lifetime we are talking under twenty instances so a fraction of a fraction of 1%. Stuff like the service sucking because it is the first nice day and the patio is packed but the manager didn't staff the place or bad service because the kitchen staff quit is not the server's fault. People should be tipping more despite horrible service since the waitstaff's day has been completely ****'en horrible and they are working much harder. Typically when people say service sucked it is because they went to some ****ty chain restaurant with expectations of fine dining service or they are cheap and just looking for excuses to be nitty.

wow