10% is no longer a reasonable tip, it has just progressed that way over time. That is why auto grats are 18%, my tip out example is based upon servers getting 18% tips, etc. You're a freeloader because you're breaking the implied contract when you go out to eat you should be paying what the standard acceptable tip is, even if you do not agree with it. If you don't agree with the standard, you shouldn't be going out to eat. You're just relying on other people to subsidize your meal, and even so, if someone decides to leave a 23% tip because of outstanding service, that should go in the waiter's pocket as a reward for excellent service, not to offset your bad tip.

Your GF is a cocktail waitress - I can't just get hammered off her free drinks and give her $1 at the end and say I'm not cheap or freeloading because I gave a tip. I need to give the standard one.

only 2 stories to report and both came from the last night. Every meal we had ended with the server coming up and asking if we wanted split checks and us saying yes. Never took them too long to split it or anything and the only time any check was wrong was when someone got a coffee that should have been on another tab at brunch which was a non-issue since their bill was otherwise the same. Even managed a somewhat complex "split the tapas 7 ways and the drinks 4 ways" (for the guys since we drank more and prob also ate more) seamlessly.

The first issue arose when I went to the restroom and overheard our server asking another if "you think these people tip well or should I autograt them? they're all from out of town and just here for the weekend." He replied saying "it could go either way." Fwiw, this was a $20-30 a plate type place. We ended up with an autograt of 20% and a girl who only got a salad left $2 extra and 2 other people left $3 extra. I never brought up what I overheard until after we left bc I thought it was inappropriate to discuss at the table and my friends were pretty upset when they heard that and said that we should have spoken to a manager and complained about the professionalism. Thoughts on whether just letting it be or mentioning it to a manager is better?

The second was the first time I recall ever leaving less than 10%. We went to a piano bar to get drinks and just hang out. It took about 20 min for our server to come the first time and then when she came she took orders from people who knew what they wanted (2 guys getting Johhny Black on the rocks and neat) and then took 10 min to get back with cocktail menus. ~20 minutes later she brought the first round of drinks and then took our orders. She came back with our very complex orders (3 Amstel Lights and a ginger ale) ~20 minutes later and then got another round for 2 of the guys. After returning quickly with theirs she disappeared for ~1 hour and we had to actually get up to find her just to get our checks. When she didnt return to get the checks in the next 10 minutes we just left cash. We left $24 on $22.47 for the Amstels and ginger ale. I think the 2 guys that had 2 rounds of doubles at $26/double left $60 each. In all we were there about 2.5 hours and saw her 5 times. When we were leaving we saw her straddling a guy in a chair in the back (presumably he BF). Given all this was the tip ok? Would this have been an ok spot to stiff her?

You probably shouldn't have told your friends that story at all at that point.

The second story would be much more annoying to me than the first.

CDL,

First - assuming auto grat is standard based on a party your size, no reason to get annoyed at all there.

Second - yeah, that's pretty annoying. $24 on $22.47 is pretty much a stiff anyway (though you could've left $23), so I think that was acceptable. I've done that a couple times in similar situations.

I probably make somewhere in the range of ~$14/hr averaged out.

Also I'm still not sure how waiters decide to ask if I want separate checks or not. Seems to be some combination of the city I'm in and who I'm with and I suppose also the kind of restaurant.

Situation 1: I'd definitely have told the table. The servers need to stick with whatever the rule is in terms of auto-gratting and not do what benefits them the most.

Situation 2: Easy stiff.

Friend #1 and I went to eat with Friend #2 at a restaurant in which his girlfriend is the waitress. They are recently dating and this is our first time meeting her. She was responsible for our table and hung out at it talking to us for 90% of the duration.

Friend #1 usually orders a ton of entrees and appetizers for the both of us and makes alterations to make it healthier. We eat it family style and then take the leftovers home to eat later. He starts ordering and she's sitting there not writing anything down. He says, "you should probably write this down, I'm going to order a lot and make special requests". She assures us she has a really good memory and it's no problem. When the food arrives, she totally messes up the orders, but we don't say anything.

It's a slow night and she has one other table, which she is rarely checking up on. The hostess comes by and asks her to get the check for her other table, as they've been waiting for a while. The girlfriend hands her some keycard to get the check. The hostess looks confused and says, "This is your keycard, I don't know the code to get the check". In which she replies, "Do you want to be a hostess forever??? The code is...".

Friend#1 decides to pick up the check for all three of us. After bringing this up to Friend #2 at some later date, he was somehow oblivious to all of this. Our standard here with decent service is a big over tip. All things considered, what do you tip?

SoCal,

I just leave like 30% because it's my friends GF, then probably don't eat there ever again.

Yeah, I wouldn't go back there as a regular punter but if I like my friend I make it count.

That said when I was in Dallas meeting Guruman from SSSH, we had drinks in the bar his missus worked in and I admitted that I wasn't aware of the protocol tipping when it's the spouse/partner of who you're drinking with. Guru took care of it which made me feel less weirded out. He is a legend.

Best,
Pete

What kind of special requests are these exactly?

I don't remember exactly. But it's probably something like change the fries with a side of salad or broccoli. Cook the chicken entree without butter. It was probably on all 4-5 entrees.

I believe it was the same alterations the boyfriend made, his order was not messed up.

the 2nd was much more annoying since I actually wanted more than 1 beer, but had no way to order it other than get up and go to the bar despite having a server and that's something that is out of line imo.

I wasn't annoyed by the autograt and fully expected that going into the dinner, but trying to profile us and actually asking someone else what to do seemed out of line. I would have probably left 25% and the rest of table would have tipped 18-30% from what I know of them so it actually came out about the same to slightly bad for her to autograt us based on her profiling.

Agree that it is pretty much a stiff and we wanted it to look that way as she was the worst cocktail waitress I have ever encountered.

thanks for the input. wasn't sure if it was appropriate to discuss while there bc the last thing I wanted to do was cause a scene. The service was good, but slow (though I expect that is on the kitchen/chef) so I didn't really want people getting upset and complaining and then leaving like 15% or less if it actually upset them.

SoCal,

You guys order 5 entrees AND apps for the 2 of you? WTF?

Yeah, standard for us. We live together and at the time, we didn't cook. When we ate out, we'd way over order and eat the leftovers later.

I thought their pay was reward for their hard work. Tipping out is just a way for restaurants to steal from wait staff to pay the back kitchen workers. The only time it really makes sense is when there are multiple support staff that would ordinarily be tipped or contributing to the service (say a nice place just has someone fill waters for tables, or a waiter needs something at a bar, and the bartender would be otherwise serving tipping customers).

Pay has nothing to do with how hard something is. It has to do with how easily replaceable you are.

Ordering cooked without butter seems a bit odd. Subbing out fries is fine. Didn't know if you asked for crazy stuff like please remove the fried part of the mozzarella sticks.

Going to the bar to get a drink if it's slow seems fine

We'll assuming it is a bar type place

In what way is the kitchen staff not contributing to the service?

I can only lol at this. Most cooks have years of experience and/or training before they can get any kind of decent job, whereas someone who is halfway intelligent can walking in the door and become an okay server in a day or two. Cooking is just a job where you are chronically underpaid for the amount and type of work you do, and I would advise anyone considering going into it that you stay away unless you really love cooking, which I do.

As long as the current tipping culture exists, there will always be tip outs. Many servers are happy to do so, because it means the kitchen will generally make their lives easier whenever possible. OTOH, you have the greedy ****s who under-report their tips, blame all their mistakes on the kitchen, and generally just make things miserable for everyone other than themselves.

As long as their aren't too many customers like Lester, the tip out amount is generally a very small fraction of what the servers are making. It's not about the amount of money at all; it's showing appreciation to the other people that make it happen. Hearing a server brag about getting a big tip on a 6-top at the window is really annoying when you know you just ran your ass off to get that food out, and the server was compensated for basically smiling and not being an *******.

If I'm the patron in CDL's second story, I"m asking around for a couple quarters so I can leave $22.50 on the $22.47 check.

If I'm with SoCalQuest and no one is picking up or paying part of the tab, I'm suggesting to the friend who's banging the ****ty waitress that he gets to leave a tip if he wants but that's the only way she's getting one.

I get the argument that they rely on tips and that 10 or 15 percent is a "bad" tip, but if you can't stiff someone who doesn't bother doing her job worth a damn then the system is beyond suboptimal, it's stupid.

Went to mall of America today, was in the valet line since parking was ****ing insane when a spot opens up like 15 feet away. Valet guy points to it and mouths "that's free" saving me $7. I parked in an amazing spot for free. My question is was he just being lazy or Would you tip him for him reducing the chance if a $3 tip when I got my car back

Just for the sake of arguments as I acknowledge that 10% is a low tip but why is it considered not to be a reasonable tip if prices gradually rise over the years? Does that lift in prices and thus achieving that higher total average tip not meet inflation?

What's reasonable is subjective. But for a moment, forget about what I think is reasonable and forget what you think is reasonable. Forget about what I personally would tip or hypothetically tip. Forget what somebody should tip or what tips are standard. To suggest that people who don't agree to perceived standard tips should not eat out and just stay home is ignorant. You are cutting your own throat. This is why I brought up price discrimination in the first place (though others refuse to accept how it applies to tipping, I think that just has more to do with that they just refuse to listen because it came from me). The principle of price discrimination is not about who should pay what, it's about extracting the most $ out of all of them. We have identified that who'd tip below the tip out rates do not contribute to overall more money. Wutang lost about 13 cents because of his 4% tipping couple, so ok, they can stay home. But when $4.60 is the most somebody is willing to give and it is available to you, why send them home because it's not $12.60 (this is from your prior scenario, post tip out from $10 and $18 tips on $100)? Sure you like $12.60 better than $4.60, but wouldn't you also like $4.60 better than $0? The reasonable answer would be yes.

And while we're at it, to show the other side too, if somebody was willing to tip 23% (on $100 tab) for outstanding service, that's $17.60 (post tip out) they're willing to give which is available due to price discrimination. If you do not allow for discriminating prices with tipping and substitute with a flat 18% automatic gratuity policy, you're now turning down those who would otherwise be willing to give you $17.60 in favor of $12.60. Limiting oneself to less when they could have more is unreasonable.

Though there seems to be misconceptions that I oppose tipping. I am not an advocate against tipping. I am very much in favor of tipping and the option of choice. And that's not necessarily because I get to choose a cheap tip. Though I admit I tip on the cheaper side, it's definitely not that far as approaching 'freeloader' range (unless freeloader is all inclusive to everyone who tips <18%, because 18% can't be the freeloader threshold, but if it is, that is beyond utterly unreasonable). That $10 tip on the $100 bill, that was originated from mullen's hypothetical. Though I do believe if one were to tip 10% in that spot it would still be reasonable, it is not what I did suggest or would suggest.

After yesterday's poker session I stopped at the cafe and got a $8.95 sandwich. I already knew I was going to tip $1 going in no matter what. I thought of this thread and how the tip outs are based on the total sale and that I was reducing it to $9 from $11 without ordering a drink. I had MiO on me so I just had water instead of a Coke or whatever. So the tip percentage went from ~9% to ~11% and the tip out would be lower. When I order I ask the dude to have the check brought with the meal as I will need nothing else thank you. The purpose is to assist in efficiency and make it clear that I am low maintenance and he can leave me alone the rest of the time. Ordinarily when I get a Coke I ask for light ice, which is not to be picky, but to assist in efficiency by eliminating the need for refill. Whenever I eat alone like this, I'm just in and out, almost like I wasn't even there, all they have to do is retrieve the plate and glass as not even a crumb will be left behind on the table from me. Though I will add that upon being seated this time I had to brush off some lettuce debris from the seat. So I get my sandwich and the check, but I don't look at the check and proceed to eat. I finish in less than 10 minutes and I reach in my wallet, drop a dollar on the table, grab the check and as I'm about to get up I glance at the check and see I'm charged for a Sierra Mist. Then I lean back in the seat and look around for the server. Maybe 3 minutes later I see him go by and get his attention and point out the mistake. He apologizes and says he'll fix it right away, I say no problem, and he's back in an instant with the corrected check. Smiles, thank you, bye and I'm gone.

After having dialogue ITT about the whether 10% tip is reasonable or not I figured I'd share this. What about in this case? I didn't tip based on quality, but I had an intention in advance to tip based on sheer simplicity and ease. Reasonable here? To me, yes. Now if I'm out to dinner and not alone I've pretty much become a ~15% tipper.


Merry Christmas everyone and I hope Santa brings you some big juicy tips. But if you believe freeloading is all inclusive to everyone who tips <18%, then it's coal for you .

They don't interact with the customer at all, and are being "tipped" a fixed amount based on sales, rather than paid on it.

It's like you read what I said, then ignored it and thought pay was based on how much training someone needs to do a job rather than how replaceable you are. LOL @ all the morons who spend $30K at the culinary schools to end up being line cooks making $20K a year.

See, you seem to think pay is based on how hard you work or how demanding something is. It's not.

Again, everyone else's job is easy, mine so hard, boo hoo. I mean this kind of stuff exists everywhere. Some sales guy is gonna get commission on selling something I made, oh noes. Besides being butthurt about a tip, how does your performance as a cook contribute at all compared to how much you get tipped out? Whereas someone who is directly interfacing with the customers will tipped based on how well they do their job (at least in theory).