Tipping - Page 13 - Other Topics Forum - Discuss Pop Culture, Arts and Entertainment

I didn't say at cost, I said close to cost, or better put, much closer to cost than it would be if they had to pay their waitstaff 12 bucks an hour or whatever. When you factor in kitchen wages, rent, utilities, the cost of the food itself, and so on, there's not much money being made on that $18 steak frites. The only money made in restaurants is made by the bar.

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07-29-2010 , 03:39 PM

#302

smurg

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Originally Posted by ATAT

So then instead of tipping, higher food prices. Customer pays the same at the end of the day whether tipping or without then. And more importantly, then every customer pays the new tip, since it's wrapped into the price of the food. Then the employer can pay the wait staff what he determines is right and the waiter knows the wage he will be collecting ahead of time.

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07-29-2010 , 03:42 PM

#303

daryn

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yeah, higher those prices!

w t f

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07-29-2010 , 03:46 PM

#304

smurg

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Originally Posted by daryn

yeah, higher those prices!

w t f

I think you missed out the part where higher food prices would mean no tipping. Then you pay the same either way if you tipped the "societal norm" 15-20%.

w t f

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07-29-2010 , 03:57 PM

#305

PoBoy321

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Originally Posted by smurg

All I do is come into this thread with my certain viewpoint/opinion and I get personal attacks.

I guess with your sick forum soul reading abilities can tell that I'm some cheap nit huh.

Everything I have read from you in this thread leads me to believe that you're the type of guy who would walk into a bar, have a couple of beers, get a tab for $19, palm the guy a 20 and tell him to keep the change.

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07-29-2010 , 04:02 PM

#306

TheCroShow

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Originally Posted by TomCollins

Probably wanted his tip in cash.

ahh i had no cash on me =/ makes sense tho

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07-29-2010 , 04:03 PM

#307

ATAT

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Originally Posted by smurg

You'll get no argument from me that it might be preferable or a better system to factor server wages into food prices and not have tipping be the norm. But this post of yours

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I wish I could start a business and let all my customers pay for my employees wages instead of paying for them myself.

led me to believe that you didn't know that the "customer burden" so-called, exists b/c menu prices are so relatively cheap, or rather that if tipping wasn't the norm, that menu prices would be much higher. If the question is why is it the norm, and why isn't it the norm in other areas of the service industry, that I don't know.

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07-29-2010 , 04:03 PM

#308

knotfan1234

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Tips are very dependent on many different variables.

Service level of waiter/waitress.
Actual restaurant.
Cheapassness.
Etc.

I usually tip the typical 15% unless I feel like the performance was terrible.

On the flip side if the service is excellent I'm a 25% and up tipper.

Last weekend my bill was 32 or so and paid 44 as I was drunk and the server was topnotch even assisting us in our credit card roulette for our beer tubes.

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07-29-2010 , 04:04 PM

#309

smurg

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Originally Posted by PoBoy321

I don't drink.

I rarely use cash, so I just write in the tip on receipts. I already mentioned that I tip 15-20%.

I just disagree on how the whole tipping system works, is perceived, etc.

The perfect situation would be higher prices to cover no tips. Then no "socially required tips". And any tips would be for exceptional service, above and beyond, etc.

This is basically how everything else in the world is run, besides waiters, barbers, and bartenders. Barbers probably have a higher hourly from employer though.

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07-29-2010 , 04:04 PM

#310

ATAT

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But actually, all things considered I do think a tipping-based system is preferable b/c you really do get a much higher average quality of service, ime

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07-29-2010 , 04:08 PM

#311

smurg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ATAT

You'll get no argument from me that it might be preferable or a better system to factor server wages into food prices and not have tipping be the norm. But this post of yours

led me to believe that you didn't know that the "customer burden" so-called, exists b/c menu prices are so relatively cheap, or rather that if tipping wasn't the norm, that menu prices would be much higher. If the question is why is it the norm, and why isn't it the norm in other areas of the service industry, that I don't know.

Read my new post and then I guess we'd agree.

I guess with tipping, restaurants prices appear to not-so much more expensive than making it yourself if the person forgets about the tip, or just tips low anyways.

So if the tips were built-in, there's no stiffing, upfront costs and no poor service from disgruntled employees, just like any other business.

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07-29-2010 , 04:11 PM

#312

smurg

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Originally Posted by ATAT

But actually, all things considered I do think a tipping-based system is preferable b/c you really do get a much higher average quality of service, ime

Then you would just be agreeing with a performance-based pay system. Which is something I agree with.

However with tipping instead of higher prices and performance pay by the employer, you open up the ability to get stiffed.

I'm sure under a performance-based pay system, money from the customer would be more true to the waiter's real performance since they are in constant contact with the waiter.

The manager might not see their full effort. But this happens in every other business anyways, so it's nothing new.

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07-29-2010 , 04:12 PM

#313

Khaos4k

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Originally Posted by smurg

I haven't waited tables, you are correct. Seeing as there are vast difference in the type of responsibilities waiters undertake depending on the restaurant, it would be hard to blanket statement everything. I'm sure some restaurants are very demanding and others not so much.

However, there are more service industry jobs that require a VERY specialized and more mentally challenging skillset than waiting tables. So if the basis for tipping waiters is that their job is "hard", then I'm sure 1/2 the jobs in the country would be getting tipped.

Waiters should be evaluated like any other employee. Their manager receives complaints/comments and can oversee things like any other business.

What exactly are these jobs?

Why should they be evaluated like any other employee? The skill difference in waiters can be vast. Tipping gives an easy way to weed out the bad from the good. Good waiters will earn better tips and get paid more. Bad waiters will move on to a new career. No need to wait for a 6 month evaluation from management. Being rewarded instantly for hard work is satisfying and encourages that behaviour.

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07-29-2010 , 04:20 PM

#314

smurg

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Originally Posted by Khaos4k

Air traffic controllers, computer technicians, and specialized type of electronics work, carpenters, welders, etc.

They might not be as "mentally challenging" as waiting tables, which I would think isn't that much, but they require A LOT more skill and craftsmanship.

And the skill difference varies a lot more in jobs where lots of skill is needed. The only aspect of a waiter that I could see a skill difference in besides hustle, would be how well they are off socially with customers. By your logic then, every company and service would be better off being tip based, so every employee could be judged instantly depending on their skill.

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07-29-2010 , 04:20 PM

#315

Khaos4k

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Originally Posted by smurg

You pretty much agree that tipping is a good performance based system, why **** it up? Right now you have the option to not tip if service is terrible. In your new world with no tipping you don't have this option, you just pay the extra 15-20%.

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07-29-2010 , 04:23 PM

#316

EfromPegTown

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Quote:

Originally Posted by smurg

Air traffic controllers, computer technicians, and specialized type of electronics work, carpenters, welders, etc.

They might not be as "mentally challenging" as waiting tables, which I would think isn't that much, but they require A LOT more skill and craftsmanship.

And the skill difference varies a lot more in jobs where lots of skill is needed. The only aspect of a waiter that I could see a skill difference in besides hustle, would be how well they are off socially with customers. By your logic then, every company and service would be better off being tip based, so every employee could be judged instantly depending on their skill.

Isn't that why these people get paid a considerably better wage then waiters?

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07-29-2010 , 04:24 PM

#317

smurg

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If would be great for every employee to be paid what they are due according to their skill and hustle. Leaving it up to the customer would be the obvious best choice in a perfect world situation. But this isn't a perfect world and leaving all the cost up to people, who are naturally looking for an edge, would exploit the system on a constant basis.

Why would anyone pay for anything when they could say the performance was poor and pay minimum.

Now, I was the one who brought up the whole "system" so I'm not trying to attack your points or anything. I'm just bringing up that the tipping system is not equal for everyone, can be exploited, and YMMV.

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07-29-2010 , 04:25 PM

#318

Khaos4k

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Originally Posted by smurg

None of the jobs you listed would work well for being tip based though. For one, some of them have skills that are impossible to evaluate, like an air traffic controller. The only thing you know is that you took off and landed safely. Sure they are skilled positions, but they don't really have any interaction with the customer.

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07-29-2010 , 04:28 PM

#319

smurg

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Originally Posted by Khaos4k

It would be just bringing it in line with how every other business operates. And in my new post, I personally belief that the system is open to exploitation and is being exploited.

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Originally Posted by EfromPegTown

Isn't that why these people get paid a considerably better wage then waiters?

Yes. But the whole "hardness" aspect of waiting tables is a straw man anyways. I don't care if they get paid decent, it's how they get paid, directly from the customer, and how this payment is expected.

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07-29-2010 , 04:30 PM

#320

smurg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Khaos4k

Yes I know, besides from those fields having a personal contract/project with a customer.

But there are difficult service-based positions that have direct customer relations without a tip-based incentive.

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07-29-2010 , 04:33 PM

#321

smurg

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I guess it comes down to:

-society deemed "right" and "wrong" when it's not required
-disgusting sense of entitlement from waiters
-openly exploited by some (stiff) when everyone else follows the "rules" (15-20%) unless poor/excellent service

I just think it's a bad system compared to every other business in the world. I don't care how much waiters get paid, but it's just the system of how it works.

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07-29-2010 , 04:33 PM

#322

daryn

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Originally Posted by smurg

I think you missed out the part where higher food prices would mean no tipping. Then you pay the same either way if you tipped the "societal norm" 15-20%.

w t f

what? no, i was just making fun of you for thinking "higher" is actually a verb meaning to increase or raise something.

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07-29-2010 , 04:34 PM

#323

EfromPegTown

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Originally Posted by smurg

I'm going out on a limb here, but I think when ATCs go to work, the expect to get paid too.

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07-29-2010 , 04:36 PM

#324

knotfan1234

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You take away tips you take away decent service. Only makes sense that way. If you give some 20-something 9.25 an hour to refill Pepsi you think they're going to work harder with no incentives? Goofy logic imo.

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07-29-2010 , 04:37 PM

#325

PoBoy321

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Originally Posted by smurg

-disgusting sense of entitlement from waiters

Oh, **** you.

Edit: How's this for a sense of entitlement: You seem to think that you deserve to receive the same level of service regardless of whether or not you pay for it. That, my friend, getting something for nothing, is a sense of entitlement.

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