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Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges.

03-24-2014 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
For starters, I would charge the man who killed his daughter's boyfriend. An investigation would follow and based on that I would decide whether to proceed to a grand jury indictment.
Good luck in your alternative career as a prosecutor.

I don't at all question your good faith about the issue, but it doesn't make a great deal of sense to charge and indict something you won't win at trial given the Texas CD rules. I suspect your efforts would be better served to repeal CD in the legislature.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 07:31 PM
Not sure how you can be so sure the case is a loser before it's been investigated, Howard.

I would have no qualms in dropping it if, after investigation, it was prudent to do so.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 07:37 PM
It has been investigated and the prosecutor said he will submit it to the grand jury, but he highly doubts they will indict. I think it is pretty reasonable to take his word for it.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 07:55 PM
Looks like the birth mother stole the kid's body from the adoptive mother.

Quote:
Zakia McCormick said she shipped Johran McCormick's body to New Orleans, where she planned to bury him, but his birth mother, Stacy LeBlanc, said she arranged for her own funeral home to pick up the body when it arrived in New Orleans.

LeBlanc said she did it because she is still legally Johran McCormick's mother.

"I never ever gave her any rights to my baby. She disregarded all my rights as the parent," said LeBlanc. "She excluded me out of everything. She hid him and everything else, and guess what, I knew her day of reckoning was going to come."

Zakia McCormick went to New Orleans to try to get the body back. Activist Quanell X is helping her with the fight.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 08:00 PM
Oh, ok. I thought charges weren't filed based on Howard's post. That makes sense.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
The idea behind the CD is that the homeowner has the right to assume that an intruder inside his house presents just such a threat. I get that the boy here was invited, and thus isn't subjectively an intruder. But the key point for the doctrine is what the father's state of mind is.

The point of my questions should be obvious, even to you. I'd never shoot a boy for consensually screwing my daughter. If I thought there was any doubt about the question, I'm personally not pulling the trigger.
You have a gun pointed pointed at an unarmed boy and you get to assume that he's the threat? Intruder or no that's ******ed. So when he answers your questions wrong you shoot him because he's an intruder and therefore your life is in danger not because you think he's been raping your daughter?
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
Yes. Once. It's a very unpleasant and stressful experience.
Wait a minute, you have?

Was the experience afterward, including your reaction, anything at all like what you thought it would be like before it happened?

I'm genuinely surprised you would ask your daughter this. Of course, you probably have a family built on trust. You know, the kind of trust that allows her to bring her to proudly bring her beau home?
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT
Wait a minute, you have?

Was the experience afterward, including your reaction, anything at all like what you thought it would be like before it happened?
I was eleven. I was at my mom's house, having dinner with her and her on-again-off-again boyfriend Leon, who I quite liked. Leon's brother Michael showed up, apparently looking to find Leon to give him cash he needed for some sort of drug deal. Leon answered the door, only to find that the dealer had followed Michael to my mom's house, a fact to which Michael took exception. Michael drew a gun and shot at the dealer. I believe he missed, although I don't know that for certain. I saw him shooting from the doorway. Police showed up in three minutes and we were all interviewed.

Prior to that, I don't recall ever having thought the situation through. I know I didn't like Michael before that; I don't recall having seen him ever again after that, although I definitely talked the situation through with Leon.

Quote:
I'm genuinely surprised you would ask your daughter this. Of course, you probably have a family built on trust. You know, the kind of trust that allows her to bring her to proudly bring her beau home?
Really? It didn't strike me as being at all controversial to ask her about it, and her reaction was immediate and pointed. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here, but yes, she'll be able to bring her boyfriend home someday.

I did tell her, though, that if she brings home a boy with an ear gauge, I can't and won't be responsible for my actions.

Last edited by Howard Treesong; 03-24-2014 at 10:23 PM. Reason: fixed some minor ambiguities
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
I was under the impression that the party raising self-defense as an affirmative defense need only prove it by a preponderance, then the burden shifts to the prosecution, which, under the castle doctrine requires that they show the defendant acted unreasonably in order to get a conviction for negligent homicide. The castle doctrine only negates the general self-defense requirement to retreat if retreat is reasonable.

Source: http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.31.00.html
You've got the self-defense statute there, I think. Texas's castle doctrine is in the next section, 9.32:

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.32.00.html

9.32(b) specifically disclaims the reasonableness requirement so long as the intruder is committing the offense of unlawful entry (to the house, not to the daughter). Here, the reported facts suggest the boy was invited by the daughter, so the question is whether the test for unlawful entry was objective (would a reasonable observer conclude the entry was unlawful) or subjective (did the dad in fact think the entry was unlawful) or something else; I'd need to dig into Texas cases more deeply to find out.

Note that 9.32(a) says "deadly force" and 9.32(b) says just "force." I'd want to make sure what the cases say about this before I conclude it's just sloppy drafting.

I suspect there are more technical interpretation issues here; I'd want to study this for a while before I say anything definite.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
I did tell her, though, that if she brings home a boy with an ear gauge, I can't and won't be responsible for my actions.
Oh, that's what those stupid things are called. Damn, I hate those things.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopstick
Looks like the birth mother stole the kid's body from the adoptive mother.
Yes, and both seem to blame the girl: "Zakia McCormick and LeBlanc do not agree on much, but they both said they want to see the girl who invited Johran McCormick over to her house held responsible in some way for his death."
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-24-2014 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT
Oh, that's what those stupid things are called. Damn, I hate those things.
In fact, I told her I'd use the damn gauge as a target, and I'm NOT a great shot. Joking obviously, and not all that funny. But those things physically revolt me. I'd have a hard time accepting a son-in-law who wore one. Race? I don't care. Profession? Don't care. Socio-economic background? Not a bit. Tattoos? Sure, I can deal with that. Ear gauge? OFF WITH HIS HEAD.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-25-2014 , 05:35 AM
off with his head? i thought you were aiming for the ear!!! lol
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-25-2014 , 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT
For all of those who are blaming the daughter for not telling the truth in this situation: Have you ever been in a situation where you either had a gun pointed at you or been in the presence of someone with a gun, who has the absolute intent and gumption to use it?
When I was 9 or 10 a couple of masked idiots broke into my house with what turned out to be an imitation firearm. I took one look at them and got the hell out of their way. It makes me grateful that I live in a country where guns are relatively hard to come by. Chances of someone in America breaking into a house with a fake gun?

I don't blame the girlfriend for not acting rationally. It's an incredibly stressful situation and she's only 16 for Christ's sake.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-25-2014 , 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
If you're a lawyer maybe and are looking for some legally prosecutable definition of the word. I'm using a more psychologist oriented usage of the word. I will admit though that it's a loaded word and people tend to assume violent or sexual, but damaging people's brains is what it's all about really.

And my definition of "abuse," while looser than average, isn't at the extreme end. I wouldn't go so far as to say raising a child with religion is abuse, but I definitely know people who would.
Would you regard spanking your child as being necessarily abusive?
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-25-2014 , 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
Would you regard spanking your child as being necessarily abusive?
dude he said if you raise your voice it's abuse....gonna go out on a limb and say he would view striking your child as abuse as well....
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-25-2014 , 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
If it were me, I'd double or triple-check before using deadly force -- for example, say to the boy: "What's my daughter's middle name?" or some other question that someone intimate with her would very likely know, but which wouldn't otherwise be obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu
Holy ****, you don't get to play trivial pursuit for someone's life. This idea that ordinary citizens should have the right to be judge, jury, and executioner without direct threat to their life is just ****ing sick.
The idea behind the CD is that the homeowner has the right to assume that an intruder inside his house presents just such a threat. I get that the boy here was invited, and thus isn't subjectively an intruder. But the key point for the doctrine is what the father's state of mind is.

The point of my questions should be obvious, even to you. I'd never shoot a boy for consensually screwing my daughter. If I thought there was any doubt about the question, I'm personally not pulling the trigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abysmal
You have a gun pointed pointed at an unarmed boy and you get to assume that he's the threat? Intruder or no that's ******ed. So when he answers your questions wrong you shoot him because he's an intruder and therefore your life is in danger not because you think he's been raping your daughter?
bump.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
03-25-2014 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abysmal
bump.
If you think the castle doctrine is ******ed per se, there's not much point having a discussion with you about it, which is why I didn't respond. But since you asked so nicely, I'll indulge with one more post.

The idea of the castle doctrine is that shooter doesn't know whether the person he thinks is an intruder is armed or not, and establishes a presumption on that basis. Whether or not you like it, it's the law in somewhere around half the states IIRC. That law aside, my own personal conduct (to the extent it is either interesting or relevant) is that I shouldn't be pulling the trigger unless I can ascertain positively that the intruder is hostile. That's a judgment of my own apart from what the law says I may be entitled to do if I live in Texas or other CD states. As I noted, I'd have a fair degree of trust in my daughter to get this one right, but she knows very well that I'm not the sort of hypercontrolling parent who can't imagine his precious snowflake ever having a boyfriend, which goes to the point of consequence I raised earlier. Is her answer enough to be positively sure of the intruder's hostile intent?

Maybe, maybe not. It's ridiculously situation-dependent, so I'm in no way wedded to the questions I suggested earlier or any other particular method; just by way of example, I'd think that my daughter would be screaming at the top of her lungs if there were a hostile intruder -- so if she's not screaming, I'd be more likely to include the intruder is friendly. But that may not be so if he has her under threat at the time, etc. etc. etc.

If I believe there's an intruder in my home, I have no trouble putting whoever it is under gunpoint in order to determine the situation -- assuming for discussion only, of course, that I have a gun in my house. Understand also the utter seriousness of this observation: shooting my daughter's boyfriend would cause permanent fractures almost regardless of other circumstance, and so the consequence of a mistake reverberate in all kinds of other awful directions. It's not the sort of macho asserting-my-rights-just-because-I-can mentality that so many gun control advocates seem to think gun owners have.

Does that address your question, or am I going to get more conclusory sanctimony?
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote
04-02-2014 , 10:01 PM
Some family and friends of Johran McCormick held a rally in front of the house he was shot in today.

Quote:
HOUSTON – Family, friends and supporters of Johran McCormick, the teen who was shot and killed by his girlfriend’s father, want the girlfriend to be held accountable for her role in his death.

Led by Community Activist Quanell X, the group rallied Wednesday morning with the victim’s mother, Zakia McCormick, in front of the home where he was killed.

Quanell X has a wikipedia page.
Texas father kills daughter's boyfriend. He likely WON'T face charges. Quote

      
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