I posted earlier that the town would probably be happy to be known again for just being a normal ****ty town with a disproportionate number of gangs from Chicago and Detroit rather the land where every girl gets raped. I should have mentioned the pizza also... It unique to the Ohio valley. I only visit home when I have pizza cravings

Yes, thank you, my point isn't that you don't think it's wrong. You just think it's less serious than penis-in-vagina rape and have repeatedly objected to all the attention it's getting.

I do accept that academically you recognize they are both in the space at the 'rape' end of the spectrum. I do not think you feel it. I think this on account of your constant objections to the media coverage (just like Lee!) which has spent a great deal of energy on exposing the very mindset that thinks there is a meaningful moral or criminal difference between putting your penis in a victim's vagina or putting it in her mouth, because it is THAT mindset that led
- the accused
- their coaches, parents and family members
- assorted Stuebenvillains and internet weirdos
...to mock, doubt, disregard, slut-shame and victim blame their way out of this.

You present yourself as a victim of media persecution, rather than saying your town looks bad to the media because its residents do bad things.


Edit, it's like you get hung up on the mechanics as a means by which to judge how rapey it was; you might have nothing but good intentions in doing so but you must recognize that the only other people who do this are those who put it on the same moral plane as shoplifting, it's wrong but not so serious, that it's even a known risk, and so on, and think people are making too much of it -- maybe they have their facts wrong or something.

At least the trolling is getting funnier.

What I meant was he seemed like a generally good guy. I never had a conversation with him about whether he's cover up a rape. I also said that the book is open on whether he did anything wrong here. The AG is investigating this aspect according to his press reports.

I do know that criminal defendants will often tell lies, so I'm not going to rush to a conclusion because of these people involved said "coach took care of it." An objective fact is that the coach didn't take care of it because that kid got arrested. Whether or not the coach tried to take care of it is the centerpiece of an ongoing investigation according to AG. I will wait on the ag's grand jury and whether charges are filed. That's what everyone should do.

I think there's a different between in gravity of a crime between two people raping a girl by putting fingers in her and say 25 people raping a victim anally, vaginally and with penises and whatever else before stuffing her into the trunk of a car and dumping her off in a vacant lot.

Is that really so hard to understand?

The media attention is objectionable because it has unfairly attacked an entire community that does not support the actions of the kids involved. Where are you from? I'm sure some equally terrible things have happened there since august yet your whole community hasn't been shamed

25 people? Goalpost shift much? How bout one person? I just read one of the convicted rapists cried out "my life is over!" when he was convicted and sentenced to juvie. What a narcissist. What a joke, they should have been sentenced as adults.

The original media narrative and blogger narrative was just that... Upwards of 25 people. That she was raped at one party by a group. take. Unconscious oit of that house, stuffed in the trunk of a car and raped by a different group at a second house. That she was then taken to a third house and raped by a third different group of people at that house before being dumped off in a vacant lot.


And that then local law enforcement covered up the case so that the football team could win games.

That's the narrative, although the details vary depending on source, that drew attention to the town and the case. The goal posts have shifted quite often.

So do you agree that there's a difference between those two scenarios?

Meh, IDK, teenagers will definitely do stupid off-the-map things and whatnot, but I'm having a hard time picturing what planet "rape picture" tweets with a passed out-drunk 16 year old would not be expected to draw serious ramifications and reactions. I have not watched nor read media coverage of this but for one Slate article whining about CNN's portrayal of the perps, but I'm already suspicious of anyone from that town. I mean, these kids were not considered outlandishly stupid or anything *before* all this happened, right?

I've seen intoxicated teenagers light their own farts on fire and crash their cars into neighbors' houses, but "hey, everybody, take a look at this picture of me and my buddy raping this kid!" is some next level ****.

Quite likely that is a pretty ****ed up place, unfair media portrayal or no.

You are saying The Real Story Here is not that this was, in fact, a group sex crime, it is that some media story you're probably making up misreported the size of that group. It wasn't the trunk of the car, it was the back seat, for god's sake, and she was left on a lawn, not a field -- WHITHER REAL JOURNALISM?

Culs360: Keeping them honest.

Did you expect someone who would rape a girl to be worries about anything other than his own life? Or are you trying to stretch that statement as representative of my hometown?

"getting raped by only a couple people: not that big of a deal"

-some rape prosecutor from steubenville ohio

I'm saying that two people raped her while she was passed out at a home that she voluntarily went to ( don't be silly and twist that like I'm saying she did something to cause the rape, I'm contrasting the kidnapping). She was never dumped off on a lawn, she stayed passed out after the rape on the couch of the home where the rape happened before she was picked up by friends and driven home.

Anything other than that, is false. I'm glad you missed out on all the early reports that contained the lies. One for example was on nancy grace saying she was gang raped at the home of the local prosecutor. Check the local leaks link that I think was in the original post for the false narrative that I'm talking about.

If you're going to post that I'm lying or misrepresenting something have some facts with you. Otherwise you're just trolling

The rapist crying out "my life is over!", indicates that he believes he's the victim here. He can't believe his bad luck. He doesn't sound remorseful for being a rapist. He sounds sorry that he was caught. You'll have to explain what statement I'm apparently trying to stretch as representative of your hometown. 'Cause I have no idea.

That's a silly deduction for you to make based on my comments in this thread. Namely, some pages ago you will see that I said they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law for their crime

A statement of a convicted rapist is not representative of my hometown. It is additional proof that that particular defendant is a sociopath animal... whom I have never defended

And I don't know if you think the punishment should be different for someone fingering a girl against her will, and someone screwing a girl against her will. It almost sounds like you think one isn't as heinous as the other.

Obv a convicted rapist doesn't speak for your hometown. Thanks for the heads-up though.

This kids were immediately identified as animals by the vast majority of the town immediately after the circumstances of the tweets and crimes became known. I agree that the social media aspect is of particular interest...but to brand an entire city as Rapetown USA because of the crime of a couple people and the ignorant statements of a few others seems absurd to me

I said from the start that they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law here. The "fullest extent of the law" here doesn't change based on what object a person uses to commit the crime of rape.

It is common at sentencing to compare a crime versus the same type of crime to determine if an offense is more serious or less serious. It is one of the sentencing factors in OHio...Is this a more serious murder than a typical murder? That always seemed like a foolish exercise to me...but I digress

Sorry for stating the obvious, but it seems lost on some people

http://www.localleaks.me/localleaks/...les/index.html

Here's the local links site. Well over 90% of the "facts" contained in it are false. The site lead to the swell of media coverage. The mainstream media accepted it all as fact. That is why I take issue with the coverage.

Oh, I'm not branding it "Rapetown"--more like, "Something wrong with that town". Although admittedly "Rapetown" has kind of a catchy ring to it.

And somehow I'm reminded of a social media service that contracts with college athletic departments to monitor all their athletes' postings for various contrabands and untoward behavior, basically so it can be removed before anything comes of it. I recall their "example" page having lots of pics with wads of money and drugs, but I sort of assume D1 still porn would be their biggest traffic. The name of the service eludes me.

Personally I think one is worse then the other. std's & unwanted pregnancy coming to mind.

Though just to be clear I think both are terrible.
I also clearly think that both should be jail-able offences.

I am not a lawyer but there might be a valid legal argument for treating them the same.

I'd be willing to trade a higher percentage of convictions on one for leaner(but as tough as they are now) sentences on the other.

On a different note.
I'd be curious to know if states with tougher sentences on rape have lower conviction rates?

just so i can make sense of this...

so culs, you come flying in here defending your "hometown" (lol at this in general. what a bunch of myopic clods you steubenville people seem to be.) your primary point is that the story the media initially reported is completely wrong, making up a bunch of revolting stories that weren't exactly true, but rape still did indeed happen.....but it wasn't the rape in the sense that "25" people banged her in "different" locations, only a couple br0s fingered her in couple locations.

so you don't want everyone here to think your "hometown" is tarnished as a whole. only these dolts kids, right? you're vehemently arguing over this, like anyone cares. while you're not backing up these kids, you're just making a ridiculously stupid and tiring investment in all of this.

keep arguing that your "hometown" is not full of freaks, though, by all means. i'm sure a lot of us will come around and really put steubenville on a pedestal after all of this. yes you've presented the facts that were wrong. we're more than capable of formulating our own opinions going forward.

culs,

Is it your contention that this type of behavior was an anomaly? Or do you believe that this kind of stuff was pretty commonplace in this group of kids?