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View Poll Results: Should pitbulls be allowed to breed
Yes 367 48.29%
No 252 33.16%
Yes but only if you have to have a special license to own one 141 18.55%
Voters: 760. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-05-2009, 12:05 AM   #76
daryn
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by Matt Williams View Post
Not to get off topic or anything, but did you ever watch the show "To Catch a Thief"? They had an expert come on and explain that most dogs only really protect the owner if the person is present. Otherwise, they are usually curious animals. A dog is not going to know you are breaking into the house to rob them. Jon used to break into houses and play w/ the dogs because there was no one home. Then he would rob them blind.
i find this to be true. if i'm home with my dog and he hears a noise outside, he perks up fast and starts to growl a bit, and might even start barking.

if i'm gone from the house for a few hours and come back, i always try to sneak up to the window and start tapping it, louder and louder, and he never even gets off the couch until i get in the door.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:05 AM   #77
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by EvilSteve View Post
Plenty of vicious small dogs (pitbulls aren't particularly large I don't think). Plenty of docile large dogs. I don't see how size is the issue.
Because if my pomeranian goes psycho, she can't even break the skin.

If the dog is big enough to do harm to another human, then the license is required. I don't think it should be separated necessarily by breed(too many loopholes), but by size.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:06 AM   #78
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by shighley3205 View Post
Pits are no different than any other working class breed, when properly trained they are the best/loyal dogs in the world.

LOL!

so you're saying that there is no difference between a greater swiss mountain dog or a st bernard and a pitbull?
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:06 AM   #79
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by shighley3205 View Post
Also, everyone saying pit bulls cannot be trusted have never watch The Dog Whisperer. Cesar Milan has SEVERAL pits and usually uses a pit when his case requires the assistance of another dog
I would trust any dog Cesar brings around. The yahoo at the chinese place tonight? No way. And yes a yahoo can own any dog. But no other "breed" seems as easy to **** up or as dangerous when you do.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:07 AM   #80
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by shighley3205 View Post
I didn't realize we had a 10 year old poster here in OOT
nah, we dont, but if one of these retard dogs came up to one of my 10 year old nephews and even growled funny I would not hesitate to pull the brand new snub nose I got w/ my ccw and put the dog down. There is no reason to have an unpredictable dog like that. what is the difference between an awesome golden retriever and a pitbull or some other agressive breed? they are both dogs, both about the same size, except one breed rips a lot less peoples' faces off.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:11 AM   #81
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by ZBTHorton View Post
I really think the best answer to all of this is that dogs that are bigger than 'x' size should require some kind of license to own them. The class should be easy, and short, and should teach the owners more about their dogs.
So you at least realize that there is a potential problem with particular sizes of dogs, if not dangerous breeds in general. Do you honestly believe that a 'short, easy class' will do anything whatsoever to remedy the situation?

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You are never going to be able to outlaw a breed.
Disagree.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:11 AM   #82
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Plenty of vicious small dogs (pitbulls aren't particularly large I don't think). Plenty of docile large dogs. I don't see how size is the issue.
Because vicious chihuahuas still aren't the ones that kill toddlers.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:11 AM   #83
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by FrankieBigNuts View Post
untouchable,

you are getting severely owned in this thread.
LOL, he's gone. Probably "forgot" about the thread already.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:13 AM   #84
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by Dolt View Post
So you at least realize that there is a potential problem with particular sizes of dogs, if not dangerous breeds in general. Do you honestly believe that a 'short, easy class' will do anything whatsoever to remedy the situation?



Disagree.
You have to be realistic here bro.

You can't outlaw a breed that is basically a mutt. There will be tons of loopholes, and people will breed the dogs to be right on the limit of legality, and the same issues will keep happening.

The best we can do is try and make everyone as educated as possible. It's not a perfect solution, but it's reasonable. If you make some dumb ass prick take a class to get his dog, his lazy ass may not think it's worth it to get a dog and mistreat it.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:14 AM   #85
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by shighley3205 View Post
This is simply untrue.
Here's the quote. I found the article that I read.

"A mean pit bull is a dog that has been turned mean, by selective breeding, by being cross-bred with a bigger, human-aggressive breed like German shepherds or Rottweilers, or by being conditioned in such a way that it begins to express hostility to human beings. A pit bull is dangerous to people, then, not to the extent that it expresses its essential pit bullness but to the extent that it deviates from it."



Malcolm Gladwell in the New Yorker if anyone cares to read up on this.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...#ixzz0YmfVdVNO

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Originally Posted by shighley3205 View Post
When two dogs that are different breeds are bred you don't get a 50/50 mix of the qualities.
Obviously you don't get to pick and choose with genetics, but you can chase after tendencies and over breeding cycles get what you want. This is where dog breeds come from.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:14 AM   #86
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by FrankieBigNuts View Post
LOL!

so you're saying that there is no difference between a greater swiss mountain dog or a st bernard and a pitbull?
Sorry, I should've specified 'protection breeds' instead of just working class.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:14 AM   #87
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by Dolt View Post
So you at least realize that there is a potential problem with particular sizes of dogs, if not dangerous breeds in general. Do you honestly believe that a 'short, easy class' will do anything whatsoever to remedy the situation?
Well I like the easy class followed by "ok now you are criminally liable". Might have made that dude think twice about leaving his window completely rolled down. He had to know his dog was dog aggressive. There's just this macho cavalier attitude, like playing with guns. I don't see how people don't grow out of that.

Also he put the dog in after and rolled up both windows, so they weren't broken. The dog was whining while the cops were there, wanting to be near his owner. My guess is he's pretty people friendly. He didn't seem to be looking too aggressively at me when I walked by before the attack. But always a little spooky. As soon as I heard the screaming and dogs going at it - I knew what had happened before I even turned around.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:20 AM   #88
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

Lol at pit bulls having their image because it's the dog "bad people" get. Pretty clearly that wouldn't be the case if the dog "bad people" got was a poodle or a wiener dog or something, and there is a pretty clear reason why they aren't choosing those dogs.

The whole reason pit bulls have a bad image is because when they do attack the outcome is often much worse than if other dogs attack. I have no idea what the actual statistics are, but even if they statistically attacked less often than other dogs I don't think it would change how they are viewed.

Imagine a scenario where you could have a pet house cat or a house lion. These house cats commonly scratch and bite and attack people but the damage is fairly insignificant. The lions on the other hand are well trained and only attack on extremely rare occasions, unfortunately when they attack its game over for the victim. Guess which one people will have a negative attitude overall towards.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:20 AM   #89
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

One night I was walking to work behind a shopping center. There was a brick wall running along the back dividing the Shopping center from a set of apartments. There was a break in the wall that allowed people to get through. I am about 100 yards from the break in the wall when a pit bull pops out in front of an owner. No leash. It took this dog half a second to look at me and decide to attack he made a grunt and instantly charged. I turned around and ran as fast as i f#@cking could and barely made it into a dumpster. I swear the dog went airborne right as i got in the dumpster. lmao

You guys are not going to tell me they are not dangerous as f#@ck. It might be the owners fault. I am not going to dispute that but I treat my Golden just like i treated my Pit and my Golden will go itto the fetal position and just start licking everything at the first sign of aggression.....
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:20 AM   #90
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by scott1 View Post
Obviously you don't get to pick and choose with genetics, but you can chase after tendencies and over breeding cycles get what you want. This is where dog breeds come from.
Because this is what the normal person is thinking. Also it would take several generations of doing this to create the dog you want.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:21 AM   #91
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by shighley3205 View Post
Sorry, I should've specified 'protection breeds' instead of just working class.
even still there's a huge difference between for example a great pyrenees and a pitbull
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:26 AM   #92
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by waterwolves View Post
One night I was walking to work behind a shopping center. There was a brick wall running along the back dividing the Shopping center from a set of apartments. There was a break in the wall that allowed people to get through. I am about 100 yards from the break in the wall when a pit bull pops out in front of an owner. No leash. It took this dog half a second to look at me and decide to attack he made a grunt and instantly charged. I turned around and ran as fast as i f#@cking could and barely made it into a dumpster. I swear the dog went airborne right as i got in the dumpster. lmao

You guys are not going to tell me they are not dangerous as f#@ck. It might be the owners fault. I am not going to dispute that but I treat my Golden just like i treated my Pit and my Golden will go itto the fetal position and just start licking everything at the first sign of aggression.....
^^^^
this


the owner can play a part but a good deal of it is their genetic makeup.


selective breeding!


it's the point that theuntouchable doesnt comprehend.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:28 AM   #93
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

grunch,

about 2 weeks ago a pit bull attacked my dog at the park because my dog barked at it. my dog had barked once, and then turned back to me to give me his ball.

about 2 seconds later i learned that tackling a pit bull and slamming its head in to concrete does not make it let go of another dog's neck.

the owner was incredibly apologetic and did his best to get his dog to let go, which he did with minimal bloodshed, amazingly. the entire ordeal lasted ~2 minutes.

i don't know what to think about pit bulls. yes, the "breed" has emphasized toughness/attacking forever and ever, but i do believe that proper handling from youth should be able to overcome this.

do i believe that unneutered pits should be allowed in dog parks? no, but i also don't believe any unneutered dogs should be allowed in dog parks.

for now, i'm just happy my dog is OK, and still sort of questioning my decision to not repeatedly kick the pit in question in the ribs as hard as i could.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:29 AM   #94
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Well I like the easy class followed by "ok now you are criminally liable". Might have made that dude think twice about leaving his window completely rolled down.
But more than likely not.

If the risk of killing a child isn't enough on it's own, then I doubt very highly that criminal liability would ever even enter the equation.

He just doesn't think anything will ever happen.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:30 AM   #95
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

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Originally Posted by FrankieBigNuts View Post
it's the point that theuntouchable doesnt comprehend.
That's because they are cute wittle snoogie wookims that wouldn't hurt a fly unless you give off fear; in which case, they will rip your throat out. Don't be scared though; the wittle pookie wuvs you!
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:31 AM   #96
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

After doing some research (Funny how I use LexisNexis more for my own curiosity than I do for school), I've found that it's actually not unprecedented to have some legislation against these dogs.

Quote:
While a handful of municipalities ban pit bull ownership altogether, most jurisdictions considering the issue, have chosen to impose various restrictions on pit bull ownership. For example, an ordinance in South Bend, Indiana requires all pit bull owners to obtain a special license and demonstrate that they have $300,000 in liability insurance to cover any potential injuries caused by their dog(s). Owners must also provide proof of their age and address, as well as pictures of their dog(s). Once the owner receives the special pit bull license, a veterinarian must tattoo the dog with an individual identification number. A similar ordinance in Morgan, Louisiana defines all pit bulls as vicious dogs and provides that owners must keep them in special enclosures with walls at least six feet high. This ordinance also requires that pit bull owners maintain $ 100,000 in liability insurance, have their dogs tattooed with special identification numbers, and obtain special vicious dog licenses.
The arguments against this are obvious though,
Quote:
Pit bull owners bringing equal protection challenges attack the reasonableness of breed-specific laws by asserting that they are underinclusive, overinclusive, or both. Thus, owners claim that pit bulls are not uniquely dangerous, and that many other types of dogs cause serious injury. A law relating exclusively to pit bulls is unreasonably underinclusive because it fails to include other potentially dangerous types of dogs.
and

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Essentially, pit bull owners allege that ordinances relating specifically to pit bulls fail to put owners on proper notice, because there is no real pit bull breed and it is difficult for owners of mixed breed dogs or adopted dogs without genealogical records to determine whether their dogs are covered by the ordinance.

The author of this says it better than I could have
Quote:
For a dog control law to be both effective and just, it must take into account two essential principles: (1) it is unreasonable to ban or restrict an entire group of dogs based on an unsupportable stereotype about their viciousness; every dog is an individual and should be treated accordingly, and (2) dogs are considered property, and as such, owners should be held accountable for their dogs actions.

Perhaps the easiest and most effective way to protect people from dog attacks is to create and enforce laws requiring the appropriate containment of all dogs, regardless of breed. Dogs would have to be enclosed or properly supervised on an owner's property and leashed when off the property, unless in a designated dog run or play area. This type of law would avoid breed discrimination, while putting the onus for dog bite prevention on the animal's owner - where it belongs.


Maybe you guys that are so afraid of them should move to one of these places:



Quote:
MANHATTAN CODE ORDIN. (KAN.) 6(21)-(25) (1973).
Any person who keeps or harbors a dangerous dog* shall keep such dog confined, except as set forth hereinafter. "Confined," as that term is used in this section, shall mean such dog is securely kept indoors or in a securely enclosed and locked pen or dog-run area.

*Any dog that has the appearance and characteristics of being predominantly of the breeds of dogs known as Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, Rottweiler, Chow or Doberman Pinscher.

Quote:
YAKIMA MUN. CODE (WASH.) 6.18.020 (1987).

Keeping of pit bull dogs prohibited.

A. It is unlawful to keep, or harbor, own or in any way possess a pit bull dog within the city of Yakima. Violation of this section is a gross misdemeanor. The minimum fine for a violation of this section shall be two hundred fifty dollars for the first offense and five hundred dollars for a second or subsequent offense, which fine shall not be suspended or deferred. For purposes of this section, proof of a prior violation shall not require proof that the same pit bull dog is involved. Each day of violation shall be a separate offense.
Quote:
BLACK JACK CODE ORDIN. (MO.) 5-34 (1994) (REPEALED 2003) (5-34 (2003) ELIMINATED BREED SPECIFIC LANGUAGE).

It shall be unlawful to keep, harbor, own or in any way possess, other than as provided in section 5-34(b), within the corporate limits of the City of Black Jack, Missouri any vicious dog. "Vicious dog" is defined to mean:

Any dog which has the physical and/or behavioral appearance and characteristics of being predominantly of the breeds of Staffordshire terrier; and other breeds commonly known as pit bulls, pit bull dogs, or pit bull terriers, or combination of any of these breeds.
courtesy of Devin Burstein of The Tennessee Journal of Business Law
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:33 AM   #97
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

We shouldn't let cats breed.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:35 AM   #98
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

I've been around a lot of pits. I've lived with a couple who were owned by roommates and I have several friends who have them or have had them in the past. For whatever reason, they became the "cool" dog to have in that circle. The reasons had nothing to do with them being mean or tough or whatever. They're just generally good, loyal, friendly dogs and they were a lot of fun to have around.

imo what really separates pits from other dogs is not necessarily that they become aggressive more often, but it's the damage they are capable of causing when they do go off. I've worked with a couple friends to pry pits apart before and I've seen plenty of fights involving non-pit breeds and it's just different. Pits can be very scary.

I'm pretty ****ed up on painkillers after wrecking a knee today so forgive if I'm rambling. Maybe I'm getting old but I guess I don't understand the appeal of owning not just pit bulls, but a bunch of other breeds as well. chows, akitas, dobermans, etc. A shepherd bit my mom in the face once so throw those in there, I guess. Is there some reason why somebody who wants a pit-sized dog can't just get a boxer/lab/retriever or something? I don't think a Golden Retriever has ever mauled a baby.

There are soooo many breeds. Why do we have to own pits? I love dogs and I wouldn't want to make a law that pulls pets out of people's home or anything, but grandfather the pits that are out there so people can keep them but make them get them fixed, imo.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:36 AM   #99
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

This thread needs less anecdotal stories.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:37 AM   #100
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Re: Should pit bulls be allowed to breed?

When I was six I was trick-or-treating and someones Golden Retriever came running to the door and jumped on me and knocked me down. I fell down the porch steps and cracked my head open. It was a huge bloody mess but I ended up being fine. Ban Golden Retrievers imo.
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