I'm generally a libertarian, but you can't have "personal freedom" for anything you want to do, especially when it has been clearly shown to harm others.

it is your responsibility to take care of your body as you see fit, not mine or anybody else.

You keep harping on the fact that this activity is wrong bc it "Harms" others. That is a weak argument at best as we constantly engage in behaviors that can "harm" others that are legal.

you are correct, we put restrictions around the use of cars to protect people. We don't just make it illegal to use them.

still no argument for making smoking illegal that i see, nor have you discredited the car analogy.

I don't think there are many activities which are legal in public places that inherently cause others harm in a similar way that smoking does.

But I'm not trying to make an argument for smoking to be illegal, because I don't think they should be. I think they should be allowed in one's own home and possibly in businesses designated specifically for their use (like a hookah lounge). I think they should be illegal in public buildings and workplaces (other than specific smoking lounges), and in public outdoor spaces like parks and beaches. I also think it should be illegal for parents with minor children to smoke in their homes while their children are there, as the child is not old enough to legally consent to being in the smoking environment.

Smoking smells bad. Really bad. And is phenomenally sticking. You can spend 20 minutes in a smokey room and it sticks to you the rest of the day.

That's the real issue.

Health issues are certainly relevent in small enclosed spaces where people spend all day every day, like resaurants on the workers or offices, but the argument about banning or restrictions on the beach or in parks has to do with how annoying it is. (Litter too because it's inevitable.)

And some things are so generally annoying that they get banned. Some aren't. And not everyone agrees either way. Logic can't solve this, it's a matter of opinion.

public bans are fine, i dont want ur canca.

but to make it illegal is super gay. im always against restricting anything that isnt super black and white ez low no gf

that is already being done buddy, but you want it more restrictive!

I find involving bureaucrats in matters of personal freedoms to be a pretty bad strategy for obvious reasons.

That being said, the amount of pollutants you will ingest bc people can smoke in public areas (like the beach) is so negligible and there are so many other harmful things we are allowed to do in public. Plus we are in public which means you don't get to dictate others behaviors and may have to adjust yours in order to avoid some things you don't like.

re: chillrob

I got really no issues but with parks and beaches. Giant open air areas should be allowed due to diffusion and the many other areas from which you can move to avoid it. I try to be a super conscientious smoker and no one has expressed discomfort in years. I also have never smoked around my child. What I would be okay with as a semi-solution is super strictness in these public areas for any type of littering or marring of the beauty (contain your ashes, contain your butts, etc.).

Um, logic along with ethics can most certainly solve this. People who don't want to use those tools chose to ignore them and use arguments that are not based in logic, Like opinions and feelings

The beach in particular sucks for smoking because essentially no smokers think twice about throwing their butts in the sand and that's where everone else is lying and kids playing and such. That litter is even bad in the gutter, but at the beach it really sucks.

Wrong. The degree to which this bothers people is entirely relevant. Consider an analogy that takes health concerns or anything really objective out of it: playing loud music in public. If it bothers no one it would be stupid to regulate it. If almost everyone hated even moderately loud music it would suck to let one person ruin it for everyone else. The right thing to do is to consider everyone's opinions and feelings and try to come up with something the vast majority of people can live with, and to show some respect for minority feelings on either side.

The basis for all of this is feelings. Only after you understand that can you use logic and ethics to help in making wise and just rules.

In some places it is mostly being done, but hardly anywhere is it banned in beaches and parks. In some states with strong tobacco lobbies there are still few restrictions.

Nearly everywhere smoking is still allowed in casinos. Casinos are important to me and to many of the people here. Some places have specific exemptions from smoking laws for casinos, which makes no sense. Even having special smoking sections in casinos, bars, and restaurants makes no sense because they are never really separated from the non-smoking areas and smoke always wafts over.

Actually we are entitled to try The fact that it's a PUBLIC place means the PUBLIC decides these things. If the public decides we dont want ******s smoking in our parks and beaches then they shouldn't be allowed to.

Public doesn't mean "you're free to do whatever you want there."

What about having designated smoking areas in public parks and beaches?

How about just stop smoking or suffer the consequences of life limiting activity.

Not presently...
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/26/news...040/index.html

Yes cigarettes should be illegal. If people want to smoke and were only ones affected by smoking I would say sure go ahead. Second hand smoke effects non users so for that reason cigarettes should not be legal. Allowing smokers spaces where to smoke does not work as there will still be second hand smoke.

How will their still be second hand smoke if they're smoking in a special smoking room?

Smoking is of course awful and costs society billions in unnecessary health care expenditures, but trying to ban vice always fails spectacularly and enriches organized crime in the process.

If cigarettes were ever banned a black market would arise and smuggling would be a problem. Smuggling cigarettes into Canada is already a huge business. The following shows random Google hits for cigarette smuggling on just one body of water (The St. Lawrence Seaway).

https://www.google.com/search?source....0.Gvi2cUS_pq8

I'm currently smoking beneath the statue of liberty. Yay America.

But buying cigarettes isn't illegal in Canada afaik. So I don't see why there's currently a need for a black market

Taxes

ya they tax the **** out of them up here. get a few hundred boxes, piece that **** out ur making a lot of money on something that isnt even illegal.

i guess thats one way to curb addiction, price em out!

Taxes are exactly it. The last time I was in Canada was so long ago you didn't need a passport to go and the cigs were still over $10 a pack. Their version of the Surgeon General's warning covers almost the entire pack, and they taste funny because companies aren't allowed to use the same additives.

That's another reason American cigarettes are desirable for smuggling. We are the only nation on earth that allows the introduction of certain chemical additives which are intended to enhance nicotine uptake.

Do smokers even realize they reek of stale smoke that sticks to their clothes and skin after they smoke? It doesn't matter where they smoke. When they go from say 'outside a casino' to say 'inside a casino' and plop down right next to you, it's a big reason why some people don't even want to go in casinos. They don't want to wade through the smoke, or sit next to someone that reeks of stale smoke.

Just as a small example, my local casino is a smoker's paradise out in front of the entrance. I hate walking through it and hold my breath. When I get home I can smell how much stale smoke has clinged to my clothes everytime. They go immediately in the laundry. Short story, I hardly go to that casino anymore.