Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Other Other Topics Discussion of arts & entertainment, pop culture, food & drink, health and exercise, fashion, relationships, work, and just about anything else in life except poker, sports, religion and politics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2017, 03:30 PM   #151
chillrob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
chillrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: under a dark cloud
Posts: 9,753
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Stu View Post
It was a sarcastic remark. You can argue against anything.

The point is personal freedom.
I'm generally a libertarian, but you can't have "personal freedom" for anything you want to do, especially when it has been clearly shown to harm others.
chillrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 03:41 PM   #152
thabighurt35
**** you Monday
 
thabighurt35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Making Baby Haterz My Bitch
Posts: 7,343
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
I'm generally a libertarian, but you can't have "personal freedom" for anything you want to do, especially when it has been clearly shown to harm others.
it is your responsibility to take care of your body as you see fit, not mine or anybody else.

You keep harping on the fact that this activity is wrong bc it "Harms" others. That is a weak argument at best as we constantly engage in behaviors that can "harm" others that are legal.
thabighurt35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 03:44 PM   #153
thabighurt35
**** you Monday
 
thabighurt35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Making Baby Haterz My Bitch
Posts: 7,343
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
Yes, and cars generally aren't allowed to be running in public places other than those specifically designed for their use.
you are correct, we put restrictions around the use of cars to protect people. We don't just make it illegal to use them.

still no argument for making smoking illegal that i see, nor have you discredited the car analogy.
thabighurt35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 03:53 PM   #154
chillrob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
chillrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: under a dark cloud
Posts: 9,753
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thabighurt35 View Post
You keep harping on the fact that this activity is wrong bc it "Harms" others. That is a weak argument at best as we constantly engage in behaviors that can "harm" others that are legal.

you are correct, we put restrictions around the use of cars to protect people. We don't just make it illegal to use them.

still no argument for making smoking illegal that i see, nor have you discredited the car analogy.
I don't think there are many activities which are legal in public places that inherently cause others harm in a similar way that smoking does.

But I'm not trying to make an argument for smoking to be illegal, because I don't think they should be. I think they should be allowed in one's own home and possibly in businesses designated specifically for their use (like a hookah lounge). I think they should be illegal in public buildings and workplaces (other than specific smoking lounges), and in public outdoor spaces like parks and beaches. I also think it should be illegal for parents with minor children to smoke in their homes while their children are there, as the child is not old enough to legally consent to being in the smoking environment.
chillrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 03:55 PM   #155
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 43,099
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Smoking smells bad. Really bad. And is phenomenally sticking. You can spend 20 minutes in a smokey room and it sticks to you the rest of the day.

That's the real issue.

Health issues are certainly relevent in small enclosed spaces where people spend all day every day, like resaurants on the workers or offices, but the argument about banning or restrictions on the beach or in parks has to do with how annoying it is. (Litter too because it's inevitable.)

And some things are so generally annoying that they get banned. Some aren't. And not everyone agrees either way. Logic can't solve this, it's a matter of opinion.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 03:59 PM   #156
WateryBoil
Pooh-Bah
 
WateryBoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: And mine are long and sharp my Lord
Posts: 4,094
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

public bans are fine, i dont want ur canca.

but to make it illegal is super gay. im always against restricting anything that isnt super black and white ez low no gf
WateryBoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 04:00 PM   #157
thabighurt35
**** you Monday
 
thabighurt35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Making Baby Haterz My Bitch
Posts: 7,343
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
No, I'm not trying to make an argument for smoking to be illegal, because I don't think they should be. I think they should be allowed in one's own home and in areas designated specifically for their use (like a hookah lounge).
that is already being done buddy, but you want it more restrictive!

I find involving bureaucrats in matters of personal freedoms to be a pretty bad strategy for obvious reasons.

That being said, the amount of pollutants you will ingest bc people can smoke in public areas (like the beach) is so negligible and there are so many other harmful things we are allowed to do in public. Plus we are in public which means you don't get to dictate others behaviors and may have to adjust yours in order to avoid some things you don't like.
thabighurt35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 04:06 PM   #158
diddy!
Twas diddyeinstein
 
diddy!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,793
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

re: chillrob

I got really no issues but with parks and beaches. Giant open air areas should be allowed due to diffusion and the many other areas from which you can move to avoid it. I try to be a super conscientious smoker and no one has expressed discomfort in years. I also have never smoked around my child. What I would be okay with as a semi-solution is super strictness in these public areas for any type of littering or marring of the beauty (contain your ashes, contain your butts, etc.).
diddy! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 04:07 PM   #159
thabighurt35
**** you Monday
 
thabighurt35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Making Baby Haterz My Bitch
Posts: 7,343
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Smoking smells bad. Really bad. And is phenomenally sticking. You can spend 20 minutes in a smokey room and it sticks to you the rest of the day.

That's the real issue.

Health issues are certainly relevent in small enclosed spaces where people spend all day every day, like resaurants on the workers or offices, but the argument about banning or restrictions on the beach or in parks has to do with how annoying it is. (Litter too because it's inevitable.)

And some things are so generally annoying that they get banned. Some aren't. And not everyone agrees either way. Logic can't solve this, it's a matter of opinion.

Um, logic along with ethics can most certainly solve this. People who don't want to use those tools chose to ignore them and use arguments that are not based in logic, Like opinions and feelings
thabighurt35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 04:09 PM   #160
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 43,099
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

The beach in particular sucks for smoking because essentially no smokers think twice about throwing their butts in the sand and that's where everone else is lying and kids playing and such. That litter is even bad in the gutter, but at the beach it really sucks.

Last edited by microbet; 09-10-2017 at 04:27 PM.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 04:17 PM   #161
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 43,099
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thabighurt35 View Post
Um, logic along with ethics can most certainly solve this. People who don't want to use those tools chose to ignore them and use arguments that are not based in logic, Like opinions and feelings
Wrong. The degree to which this bothers people is entirely relevant. Consider an analogy that takes health concerns or anything really objective out of it: playing loud music in public. If it bothers no one it would be stupid to regulate it. If almost everyone hated even moderately loud music it would suck to let one person ruin it for everyone else. The right thing to do is to consider everyone's opinions and feelings and try to come up with something the vast majority of people can live with, and to show some respect for minority feelings on either side.

The basis for all of this is feelings. Only after you understand that can you use logic and ethics to help in making wise and just rules.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 04:48 PM   #162
chillrob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
chillrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: under a dark cloud
Posts: 9,753
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thabighurt35 View Post
that is already being done buddy, but you want it more restrictive!
In some places it is mostly being done, but hardly anywhere is it banned in beaches and parks. In some states with strong tobacco lobbies there are still few restrictions.

Nearly everywhere smoking is still allowed in casinos. Casinos are important to me and to many of the people here. Some places have specific exemptions from smoking laws for casinos, which makes no sense. Even having special smoking sections in casinos, bars, and restaurants makes no sense because they are never really separated from the non-smoking areas and smoke always wafts over.
chillrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 09:36 AM   #163
Wooders0n
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Wooders0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Party at the Moon Tower
Posts: 21,607
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thabighurt35 View Post
You are not entitled to dictate how other people get to enjoy a public beach
Actually we are entitled to try The fact that it's a PUBLIC place means the PUBLIC decides these things. If the public decides we dont want retards smoking in our parks and beaches then they shouldn't be allowed to.

Public doesn't mean "you're free to do whatever you want there."
Wooders0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 11:52 AM   #164
patron
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 656
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

What about having designated smoking areas in public parks and beaches?
patron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 04:02 PM   #165
brandoncla
Pooh-Bah
 
brandoncla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where the Rivahhhhs flow like wine
Posts: 4,942
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by patron View Post
What about having designated smoking areas in public parks and beaches?
How about just stop smoking or suffer the consequences of life limiting activity.
brandoncla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 08:09 PM   #166
eastern motors
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Where your job is your credit
Posts: 8,928
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thabighurt35 View Post
you are correct, we put restrictions around the use of cars to protect people. We don't just make it illegal to use them.

still no argument for making smoking illegal that i see, nor have you discredited the car analogy.
Not presently...
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/26/news...040/index.html
eastern motors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 02:12 PM   #167
ZeckoRiver
Pooh-Bah
 
ZeckoRiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Check raising stupid tourists
Posts: 5,422
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Yes cigarettes should be illegal. If people want to smoke and were only ones affected by smoking I would say sure go ahead. Second hand smoke effects non users so for that reason cigarettes should not be legal. Allowing smokers spaces where to smoke does not work as there will still be second hand smoke.

Last edited by ZeckoRiver; 09-14-2017 at 02:20 PM.
ZeckoRiver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 10:33 AM   #168
Mr.mmmKay
Drugs are bad...
 
Mr.mmmKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 13,234
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

How will their still be second hand smoke if they're smoking in a special smoking room?
Mr.mmmKay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 10:45 AM   #169
stinkubus
veteran
 
stinkubus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,168
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Smoking is of course awful and costs society billions in unnecessary health care expenditures, but trying to ban vice always fails spectacularly and enriches organized crime in the process.

If cigarettes were ever banned a black market would arise and smuggling would be a problem. Smuggling cigarettes into Canada is already a huge business. The following shows random Google hits for cigarette smuggling on just one body of water (The St. Lawrence Seaway).

https://www.google.com/search?source....0.Gvi2cUS_pq8
stinkubus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 10:55 AM   #170
fuluck414
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,804
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

I'm currently smoking beneath the statue of liberty. Yay America.
fuluck414 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 11:04 AM   #171
Mr.mmmKay
Drugs are bad...
 
Mr.mmmKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 13,234
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus View Post
Smoking is of course awful and costs society billions in unnecessary health care expenditures, but trying to ban vice always fails spectacularly and enriches organized crime in the process.

If cigarettes were ever banned a black market would arise and smuggling would be a problem. Smuggling cigarettes into Canada is already a huge business. The following shows random Google hits for cigarette smuggling on just one body of water (The St. Lawrence Seaway).

https://www.google.com/search?source....0.Gvi2cUS_pq8
But buying cigarettes isn't illegal in Canada afaik. So I don't see why there's currently a need for a black market
Mr.mmmKay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 12:51 PM   #172
425kid
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
425kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,066
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Taxes
425kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 01:31 PM   #173
WateryBoil
Pooh-Bah
 
WateryBoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: And mine are long and sharp my Lord
Posts: 4,094
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

ya they tax the **** out of them up here. get a few hundred boxes, piece that **** out ur making a lot of money on something that isnt even illegal.

i guess thats one way to curb addiction, price em out!
WateryBoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 05:56 PM   #174
stinkubus
veteran
 
stinkubus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,168
Re: Should cigarettes be illegal?

Taxes are exactly it. The last time I was in Canada was so long ago you didn't need a passport to go and the cigs were still over $10 a pack. Their version of the Surgeon General's warning covers almost the entire pack, and they taste funny because companies aren't allowed to use the same additives.

That's another reason American cigarettes are desirable for smuggling. We are the only nation on earth that allows the introduction of certain chemical additives which are intended to enhance nicotine uptake.
stinkubus is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online