I've had depression and anxiety issues since my teens, but it got noticeably worse in my early 20's when I moved to Los Angeles not knowing a soul and had trouble making friends etc. In hindsight the move to LA at that time in life was a bad idea but its not something you understand till years later.

I've been on just about every type of medication and some worked, some didn't, and sometimes I just didn't like the idea of being medicated. Tried to hang myself once, I don't think I actually wanted to go all the way thru with it with 100% commitment but I was in zombie depression mode and wasn't thinking rationally so who knows. Luckily my attempt was weak and midway through I realized I didn't want to actually do it and was able to abort before passing out. Got on some new medication, got a therapist and got slightly better, then the great recession happened and I got laid off and had to move back home lol - but the time from thinking about really doing it, to attempting it was less than an hour. So someone could have had dinner with AB the night before and may not have even noticed anything. I still have occasionally issues and the thoughts pop in my head, I'd love it if they wouldn't but some peoples brains just don't work that way. My brother has zero anxiety or depression issues.

Overall the number one thing that I think helps me more than medicine (assuming you find the right one) is good sleep (8 hours), good food, and breaking a sweat regularly...even if its just long walks every day or going for a swim in the pool. Doing stuff so your life seems more full, even if its your friends forcing you to come out or go on a trip etc is a huge factor. Practicing stoicism and trying to meditate has helped too just to clear out neg emotions and practice being present but it takes some work to be consistent with it. Also occasionally doing a dose of shrooms once every couple of years when I need to do a full system refresh.

Everyone is different though...finding a therapist is a great first step imo.

I know this won’t be popular but why would that guy get banned for what he said? It’s insensitive but if that’s his opinion, that’s his opinion. I don’t know him so maybe he’s some sort of troll or something but as far as I can tell, he was just expressing a different viewpoint. What am I missing?

Do you even Rapini bro?

Bourdain may have committed suicide not because he was depressed or sad but because he may have been a follower of Epicurean Philosophy.

From Wikipedia:

"Epicureanism argued that pleasure was the chief good in life. Hence, Epicurus advocated living in such a way as to derive the greatest amount of pleasure possible during one's lifetime, yet doing so moderately in order to avoid the suffering incurred by overindulgence in such pleasure."

Basically, the aim of Epicurean philosophy was to maximize pleasure (for example, drinking good wine and getting drunk and being merry) while minimizing the pain that often comes with that pleasure, namely, a hangover.

And here's the quote that leads me to believe that Bourdain committed suicide because he was an Epicurean in practice.

From Epicureus: "When we say . . . that pleasure is the end and aim, we do not mean the pleasures of the prodigal or the pleasures of sensuality, as we are understood to do by some through ignorance, prejudice or wilful misrepresentation. By pleasure we mean the absence of pain in the body and of trouble in the soul."

Many followers of Epicureus actually came to the conclusion that this meant suicide. In fact, he had to be a suicide counselor to many of his followers because it turned out that his followers came to the conclusion that death meant absence of pain....and suicide was the most obvious course of action.

I don't know if Bourdain ever claimed to be an Epicurean. But one thing is for certain, he was a practitioner of it whether or not he ever admitted it or was even conscious of it.

Seems like a ridiculous ban. He's banned for expressing a commonly held opinion? An opinion that rolled the thread forward in an interesting way?

Reg,

27offsuit:

When can I start posting in the Vegas vloggers thread again? I noticed that many of the other exiled ones are back posting. Can I go back and make posts there now? I promise I won't make fun of Boski.

Anyway, back to Bourdain. He was definitely Epicurean in that he was in pursuit of pleasure as a means of earning a living and becoming famous. He must have followed the Epicurean process:

Step 1. Maximize pleasure (example: eating)

Step 2. Suffer the after effects as a result (example: heartburn)

Step 3. Re-adjust pleasure seeking to doing just enough not to suffer the after effects (eat and enjoy but quit right before the heartburn point is reached)

Step 4. Conclude that it ultimately is not about gaining pleasure but minimizing pain in both the activity (example: eating) and life in general.

Step 5. Suicide stops all pain. Plus, the Epicureans didn't believe in the afterlife.

It is easy to conclude that Bourdain was an Epicurean.

I bet Epicurus was kicking himself when his sex cult attracted depressed people instead of impressionable young girls.

Who would these others be, Reg?

And stop with the Epicurean bs.

Epicureanism is just my theory based on what Bourdain did and was famous for and what the Epicurean philosophy is all about. There was never any reports that Bourdain was in deep depression.

Anyway, weren't one of the Turdzilla's exiled but then allowed back?

Turdzilla's were all nuked into orbit and nobody, and by nobody I mean me, is interested in your theories.


(•_•)
You might say
( •_•)>⌐■-■
I have no reservations about this
(⌐■_■)
YEEEEAAAAHHHHH!

How do you think this works? Do you think that people commit suicide only after a long and noticeable downward spiral? Do you think that people who attempt suicide can be recognized in a simple conversation the night before?

And he had a life-long history of depression that was often referenced in his work.

I think there is another forum that is more appropriate for your off-topic whining.

This post.....wow. My youngest brother took his own life in Oct so it's still too raw for me to open up about, but thank you for sharing. A lot of this really hits home.

Someday I'll be able to share more. RIP Aaron. Love you, bro.

Another gem.

This thread has been surprisingly great. Thanks all.

Thanks for sharing guys, heart breaks for you. My sister's ex-husband committed suicide, much to do with how he blew their marriage through bad choices. It has deeply affected my sister even 10+ years after. No kids in their situation.

When kids are involved, it tends to affect judgement. People are protective of kids, and they tend to have stronger emotional responses to situations where something bad happens to a kid than the same thing happening to an adult.

We see this with victims of abuse, homicide, etc. We also see it with those affected by suicide.

This results in people having less empathy for those who commit suicide when responsible for a child.

Most (90%) suicides happen when the suicidal person is not in a neurotypical state, usually the results of a clinically diagnosable psychiatric disorder. This is what people do not have empathy for.

People who do not suffer mental illness as well as those who wholly or partially reject the concept of mental illness have less empathy for those with mental illness. There are a lot of these people out there.

Someone who will extend a kind word to someone hobbling along with a broken leg but issue a "he should just get over it" to someone suffering clinical depression is generally behaving this way due to lack of empathy, which is usually the result of lack of education or direct exposure to mental illness.

Unfortunately there are still very strong taboos against discussing mental illness, acknowledging that it exists, and spending resources on addressing it. This has gotten better over the years, but there is still a very long way to go. One of the reasons I like jmakin is that he is open and honest about his mental health issues, and he actively discusses them to reduce the associated stigma. Kudos to him and everyone like him that does that.

All of the above issues add up to uneducated inexperienced people deciding that those who commit suicide are selfish people who don't care about others, which of course results in further stigmatization and just makes things worse . The more education and outreach there is on suicide, the less we will see this response.


I have no problem with people committing suicide if they choose to do so in a rational state of mind, and they don't have dependents (especially kids) who are reliant on them. For some people, especially those suffering from chronic untreatable illness that materially affects their quality of life, it is downright cruel to disallow this.

I have no problem with people who commit suicide while in an irrational state of mind, because it is not fair to hold them responsible for their behavior at that point.

I do have a problem with people who know they are suicide risks, have dependents, are capable of taking reasonable actions to reduce the risk of entering an irrational state of mind where they may commit suicide, and choose not to do so.





foatie - excellent post and illustrates why you are my favorite OOT poster. foatie

Thanks Rich & El Sapo,

Don't think I've told another soul about what I've written here. It took me about a decade until I was able to utter his name without breaking down. Always stone cold silence from me. I think now it's better to talk about the worst thing that has ever happened in my life. (yes, I've lost other people but not to suicide.)

I'm so very sorry for your loss Rich. The pain lessens but there is always an empty space in my heart reserved for my brother. And no, I don't think if you emailed, texted or reached out a bit more you could've changed his outcome. This is something I've thought about more than a little. I just don't believe it. I don't believe that would fix his mental health any more than 'thoughts and prayers'.

RIP Aaron, you will be missed.

Thanks for the kind words, Josie. Means more than I can express.

I've told those closest to me this: I feel zero anger towards him for doing what he felt he had to do. The only thing I feel is pure unadulterated sadness that he felt that way and that he was in such pain. Kid was brilliant and had a huge heart. He fought like hell for it not to end the way it did.

*hug*

Solid post. She might have reacted with some frustration, irritation and so on, that's normal. Saying "calm down" just shows lack of understanding, detachment. Chilling *******s.

You witnessed the abyss. Now continue! There's much good too.

I can see this thread being a good resource for those going through it to read over and ground themselves with. I know it's helped a lot for me over the past week. Thanks everyone. OOT & 2+2 can be amazing sometimes.

I am one of those children left behind, and I would not subscribe to the idiotic claim that suicide is 'selfish'. The person just can't go on.

I don't see why those things are mutually exclusive. Just say it's selfish in the same way that pretty much every action we take is becuase it will have a positive effect on us - so everything is "selfish".

Someone can take into consideration the effect on others in an unselfish manner and still conclude that suicide makes sense.

This probably won’t go over well, but I personally believe there is a spectrum to suicide vis a vis “selfishness”.

I know a few people that have committed suicude. All but one I feel nothing but sadness and blame them not one bit for doing what they felt was necesary while out of their right mind.

But, one guy I worked with did it and I must admit that I hold anger toward him. He had a young child and knew well that the kid would be in an extremely bad place forever if left solely with her mother. He was lazy and didn’t make any meaningful attempts to help himself from the situations that he constantly groused about.

That said, I admit that anyone who can take their own life is clearly incapable, at least in that moment, of rational/logical thought and looking at the situation and necessarily using those abilities isn’t fair per se.

It’s a really tricky thing, but I feel like there is plenty of grey area. Or maybe I’m just an *******.

The guy KILLED HIMSELF and you blame him and call him lazy.

I honestly don't think you're an *******. Clearly you're thinking about this, challenging yourself ... but I mean .... he was in enough pain to kill himself but you judge him lazy and at fault. I mean. .... does calling him lazy really sound like the person you believe you are?