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"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode!

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12-10-2008 , 03:36 PM

#201

BeccaGo

adept

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,172

Quote:

Originally Posted by otnemem

But when you're writing for a book or magazine with strict standards and guidelines, there's only one way to punctuate.

Tell it, brother. And to that end, may I just state for the record: I loathe serial commas.

Quote

12-10-2008 , 03:38 PM

#202

Aloysius

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BeccaGo

Tell it, brother. And to that end, may I just state for the record: I loathe serial commas.

I use it sometimes for emphasis or to reduce ambiguity.

-Al

Quote

12-10-2008 , 03:39 PM

#203

otnemem

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Yeah, they're pretty bad.

Last edited by otnemem; 12-10-2008 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Responding to Becca

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12-10-2008 , 03:39 PM

#204

gumpzilla

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BeccaGo

And to that end, may I just state for the record: I loathe serial commas.

Tell it to these guys.

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12-10-2008 , 03:40 PM

#205

offTopic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloysius

At first, I lol'ed, then I realized, couldn't really think of another example of that. Lil help? Also 'demur' is a solid verb imo.

I don't have an example handy, but I know I have seen it done on these very messageboards.

And

yes, "demur" is solid. I think I first saw it used by Poe and had to look it up.

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12-10-2008 , 03:42 PM

#206

gumpzilla

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Another likely candidate for attempting to use a fancy verb and then getting the wrong word is proscribe.

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12-10-2008 , 03:43 PM

#207

Aloysius

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BeccaGo

Tell it, brother. And to that end, may I just state for the record: I loathe serial commas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by otnemem

Yeah, they're pretty bad.

Ok - taken from the serial comma wiki:

Quote:

Use of the serial comma can sometimes remove ambiguity. Consider the possibly apocryphal book dedication quoted by Teresa Nielsen Hayden[14]:

To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

There is ambiguity about the writer's parentage, because Ayn Rand and God can be read as in apposition to my parents, leading the reader to believe that the writer refers to Ayn Rand and God as his or her parents. A comma before and removes the ambiguity:

To my parents, Ayn Rand, and God.

Seems like the serial comma is sort of useful in this example, thoughts?

-Al

Quote

12-10-2008 , 03:43 PM

#208

Aloysius

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gumpzilla

Another likely candidate for attempting to use a fancy verb and then getting the wrong word is proscribe.

Thank you, that is a good one.

-Al

Quote

12-10-2008 , 03:45 PM

#209

Vantek

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I could care less.

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12-10-2008 , 03:46 PM

#210

otnemem

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloysius

Ok - taken from the serial comma wiki:

Seems like the serial comma is sort of useful in this example, thoughts?

-Al

In that particular instance, I don't think it would be too ambiguous if you omitted the serial comma.

But whether you use Chicago Manual or AP rules, there are always exceptions to the standard for comma usage.

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12-10-2008 , 03:47 PM

#211

miajag

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I use the serial comma when it is necessary for clarity, as in the example Al gave, and avoid it when it isn't. I hate hate hate it unless it's necessary. In the example I'd actually have just switched the order to avoid it. Just always seemed redundant to me to have both the comma and the word "and" before the last item in the series.

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12-10-2008 , 03:47 PM

#212

█████

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,120

This is literally the worst thread ever.

Quote

12-10-2008 , 03:50 PM

#213

MrWookie

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

On the sports front, the one that gets me regards "fair catch." "Number 85 calls for a fair catch on the 40 yard line." Fine. "Number 85 fair caught the ball on the 40 yard line." Sonnuvagoddambitchahachchchchchchchchdch!

Also,

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackInDaCrak

As far as putting punctuation outside of quotation marks, it's widely used in the practice of law, i.e.:

For purposes of Colo. Rev. Stat. 19-1-103(65.3) the child does not meet the definition of "indian child".

This is an improper usage of "i.e." "I.e." is short for "id est," which means "that is." This is used, for example, to clarify your previous statement. Here, you're giving an example, not clarifying. The proper Latin abbreviation to use is "e.g.," which is short for "exempli gratia," meaning "for the sake of example."

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12-10-2008 , 03:50 PM

#214

BeccaGo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gumpzilla

Tell it to these guys.

Ha ha...I actually like it as a title, but I swear to Christ, at least 75% of the copy editing I do on each of these manuscripts is just adding superfluous commas to adhere to our anal-retentive style guide. Hooray for engineering jargon!

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12-10-2008 , 03:50 PM

#215

Aloysius

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otnemem:

Quote:

There is no global consensus among writers or editors on the use of the serial comma.[4] Most authorities on American English recommend its use, but it is not so frequently used in British English (see extended treatment below, including a survey of published recommendations in Usage and subsequent sections).

Dude, pick a side. I'm personally gonna go all British -- periods outside of quotes, and no more serial comma for me.

-Al

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12-10-2008 , 03:52 PM

#216

otnemem

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloysius

otnemem:

Dude, pick a side. I'm personally gonna go all British -- periods outside of quotes, and no more serial comma for me.

-Al

It varies from industry to industry, generally. In the U.S., most book publishers use serial commas, while most magazines don't.

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12-10-2008 , 03:54 PM

#217

gumpzilla

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

On the Latin abbreviations front, my advisor once busted me because I thoughtlessly typed et. al. Oops! (Also, special bonus question for this thread: should that have been "et. al..?")

Quote

12-10-2008 , 03:54 PM

#218

ElSapo

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Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,471

This hangs in the bathroom of the local poolroom:

Someone wrote in the apostrophe and the e.
Also, someone pissed on the girl on the right.

Not sure if either of those touches is visible in the picture.

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12-10-2008 , 03:55 PM

#219

tuq

TEEJ

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 46,365

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeccaGo

Tell it, brother. And to that end, may I just state for the record: I loathe serial commas.

Well then you and Sniper just weren't meant to be together. Doesn't matter anyway, cabn killed him, cut him up, put him in his freezer, and now ritualistically eats him with a nice chianti (hssssssssss).

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12-10-2008 , 03:57 PM

#220

Aloysius

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otnemem - not using serial commas saves space for newspapers and magazines. I guess book publishers don't care as much?

Question - how come in British things I will often see "Mr Mendel" vs. "Mr. Mendel". Is this also a space saving issue?

-Al

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12-10-2008 , 03:58 PM

#221

gumpzilla

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Also, I think econophile posted this the last time we had a thread like this, but:

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

That **** makes my head hurt.

Quote:

Well then you, Sniper, and I just weren't meant to be together.

FYP.

Quote

12-10-2008 , 03:59 PM

#222

MrWookie

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by gumpzilla

On the Latin abbreviations front, my advisor once busted me because I thoughtlessly typed et. al. Oops! (Also, special bonus question for this thread: should that have been "et. al..?")

I confess to getting period-happy with "et al.," too, but I at least know the difference and usually catch myself.

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12-10-2008 , 04:00 PM

#223

gusmahler

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Surprised their are "no" mention's of:

ensure/insure

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12-10-2008 , 04:01 PM

#224

tuq

TEEJ

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 46,365

gump,

"Well then you, Sniper, and I just weren't meant to be together."

WTF, you're damned right I don't want to be in a threesome with Sniper irregardless of who the third party is.