Technically it's merely allowed in the first instance, but that is not the same as correct. It's bad form there.

Wanna cite any of this, NewOldGuy?

"Whom" is correct in both instances. "Who" is pretty common usage these days. But calling "whom" wrong is just, well, wrong.

Text from a friend last week:

"That's nice. Whom do YOU want to see naked?!"

No comment on the terminal punctuation or the "YOU," but I appreciate the correct use of "whom."

There are many sources that discuss modern usage in which the old subject=who / object=whom rule doesn't always apply when used at the beginning of a sentence or clause. In fact it probably hasn't been used that way strictly for 100 years except by nits more concerned with a rule than with smooth communication that doesn't distract by calling attention to itself by its own awkwardness.

This is similar to the so-called rule taught to children to not begin sentences with conjunctions, while skillful adult writers have always ignored this made-up rule and done so very effectively. The rule is merely a starting point to teach structure to kids until they become fluent enough to know when to break it.

Grammar is about clear and effective communication, and when 99% of educated speakers use "who" to start a sentence with an object clause, then they determine what is correct. Awkward usage that calls attention to itself for no good reason is bad form.

I'm not convinced beginning a question with "whom," used correctly, distracts significantly. And I agree with your argument in principal.

That's fine, and some speakers can pull it off. It's "principle" by the way.

I know it's principle.

I see what you did there.

See that reads awkward as hell to me. I agree with NewOldGuy that some of these formulations are awkward even if they are not "wrong". One problem with that sort of sentence is that although it's clear grammatically that the subject is "you", it's not clear semantically. The question is mostly "about" the naked people. For example, I could write "Who is top of your wishlist to see naked?" which is the same question phrased such that the naked person is the subject.

There are similar issues with the Brees questions. While grammatically, the subject is Brees in both cases, the semantic subject of the question is really the people being asked about.

Generally speaking, for educated speakers with some experience writing, if it sounds wrong it probably is. Sometimes dissecting the function of the pronoun within its clause in a sentence can be tricky, but we know it intuitively.

I would add that the Chicago Style Guide agrees with us on this. See 5.66 (or 5.63 in some versions) regarding who vs whom. It's probably used by more professional writers than most guides.

Here are some of their examples:

poor: Whom should I say is calling?
better: Who should I say is calling?

poor: I’ll talk to whomever will listen.
better: I’ll talk to whoever will listen.

See above.

These aren't fair comparisons to the Brees example. In both of these examples, Whom/whomever is the subject, so it would be incorrect to use them. If you can find an example where the Chicago Style Guide recommends against using whom when it's an object (as in the Brees examples), that would be relevant.

Also, to preempt what I suspect someone will post about whomever being the object in the second example: it's both the object of talk to and the subject of will listen. In these instances where the pronoun functions as both object and subject, convention is that the subject takes precedence and you use whoever.

On second thought you are right. I would just point out that it's not the subject that takes precedence, it's the function of the pronoun within its own clause that matters, not the function of that clause within the sentence. In your second example, the pronoun is the subject of the clause "whoever will listen".

I'm with John Cole. And since he helps run a college English Department, and I'm a university English instructor, I bet we're right.

Which of the following is correct?

I am writing to ask whether... ?

I am writing to ask whether... .

As in, question mark or no? No. "I am writing to ask x" is a statement of fact.

In a passive-voice sentence like that, "enquire" is frequently better than "ask", imo. Ask has more of a spoken/verbal/active connotation.

Thanks. I think it might be these people who are doing it to me:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28708526

I'm not sure why you say the sentence is passive voice.

I have attempted to post a failed headline but can't get the link to work, nor can I delete it. Not sure why.

Here it is, a good illustration of the job hyphens do:
"Students get first hand job experience."

[URL="https://americangg.net/newspaper-humiliated-missing-hyphen/?fbclid=IwAR2jWfKeTNbRO1awXRl6ex9IhoMWHbuunjvtAkyT 720ws9nk9iMxXC1Q5mg"]

This is how you do it

I understand confusing it for the passive, as you have a to be verb in there.

But yeah, a true passive construction would be like, “I am being asked to write...”

This whole "whom" vs "who" thing is making my head explode. Never once, in my education growing up, have we ever used "whom." I woudno't be surprised if many others have had the same experience.

I think that "whom" is becoming a bit of an archaic term, slowly moving out of common use. Personally, I think the word sounds awkward unless you speak in a southern accent, and I'm okay if you use replace all who's with whom's at that point.

The one that gets me is something like:

"Talk to Jeff or myself when you are ready."

I think whom sounds as wrong and awkward as "myself" in that sentence, even if it is grammatically correct (it isn't, right?).

Dave,

Yes, that is wrong. "Myself" is a reflexive pronoun. I hurt myself, for example.

Careful writers still use "whom," but it's dying off in speech.

FFS. It is very easy. Who/whom stands for an unknown person. Let us imagine that person is Bob. Use "whom" whenever you would use "him" to refer to Bob, and "who" whenever you would use "he."

Similarly, when referencing yourself and another person, use whatever pronoun for you that you would use if the other person weren't there. "Bob and I sniffed glue." "The police arrested Bob and me." Obviously you would never say "The police arrested myself."

You obviously never met a person from New England if you think no one ever uses myself that way.

Usually, it's used in a positive connotation sentences, so they wouldn't say the police arrested "myself;" They would say the police talked to "Bob and myself."

My point was that "whom" was never once discussed in the 12 years I went to grade school or high school, and I'd guess many people have had the same experience. In fact, I probably read that word more in this thread than I have in my entire life, and almost never heard it spoken.

While the rule is not that hard to remember, it's unnatural as saying any similar word. Personally, I don't feel like any real meaning is lost if you never use it.