Good luck that_pope. I kind of half-ass tried to quit twice without telling my friends and it didn't stick. I'm pretty sure not telling them didn't have much to do with it, but this time I simply took it more seriously overall and told them. I think it's been a big positive. My issues aren't really impulsive so it's not that they'll be watching to make sure I'm not drinking, but if someone brings over beers they'll bring over whatever I'm drinking. We're all pretty self-deprecating so we'll joke about me not boozing. It felt oddly nice to just have it out there and not be a big deal. Unless you have ****ty friends, I've got no advice there.

Really good you recognise what your danger areas idea are, and are doing something to counter them. Just stay vigilant with it, and don't get complacent.

I'm similar - going back from work and going past off licences, especially on Fri/weekends. I basically don't take money out with me unless I know I need it, as it's so easy to have a slip - 30secs and I can by back on my way with a bottle of vodka in my bag.

Yes, I lead a ludicrously healthy lifestyle. I have a triathlon in a couple of weeks but I've barely trained because I've been so distracted. With that said I'm planning on giving it a whirl anyway. I also eat extremely extremely clean. Honestly exercise and diet are probably things I focus on when I should be focusing more on my mental health and my program.

For the guys working on strategies to just not drink: for what it's worth, that kind of stuff is very familiar to me. I genuinely hope it does the trick for you, for me it very much did not. I am powerless over alcohol. I had success in the past for as long as 6 months, but I always started drinking again. That's just a huge central part, imo, of what makes an alcoholic an alcoholic. There are long passages in the big book describing exactly this, and that was written in the 1930's. So again, I hope these things work for you, but if they do not please know there's a huge group of people who've been there and then gotten sober.

The talk of the Big Book just reminds me of how behind the times AA is, I mean it was written in the 30s and I think the only professional they had was a medical doctor. I really wish they'd update with a more scientific view of the mind/addiction/mental health and focused on neuroplastic changes. Instead you have alchoholics that are still alchies after getting their 30 year chip. For most people it's the God stuff that turns them off, for me it was how unscientific they are with addiction. You can't really blame them tho, when mental health and addiction professionals are still working with a paradigm that was popular last millennium it's hard to update your game.

In a general way I agree with you. It's pretty nuts that the only thing that has helped me was devised by some non-professionals (and pretty nutty non-professionals at that) nearly 100 years ago.

AA claims no monopoly on sobriety. If somebody in AA says different that's fine, but nobody speaks for AA.

My scientific approach went like this: fail miserably at stopping alcohol and drugs on my own for 26 years. See some people who had success doing AA. Try that. It works and helps me, so I keep doing it.

I am sure there are some very smart people working on some great alternatives. I hope they can do something for people so they never get to the point I reached. If that happens, AA will go away, because IMO very few people in their right mind would continue in this program if they really believed there was an alternative.

Duhigg's book The Power of Habit makes a compelling case for the fact that AA stumbled into an effective treatment, the type of treatment that current science is now able to explain.

He thinks it is basically impossible to destroy a habit. Instead we need to change one element. Habits involve: trigger, routine, reward. For many alcoholics a trigger leads to drinking (routine) which ends in a reward (forgetting problems, etc). Instead of trying to willpower your way into destroying the whole habit, the most effective thing to do is change the routine of how you respond to a trigger while maintaining the trigger and reward.

Instead of trigger >> drink >> reward the idea is to go trigger >> AA meeting or talk with sponsor >> reward. The hope is that what you get from drinking (comradery or dealing with problems or whatever it is) can be replaced by AA. There is good science (as I understand it) showing that this is an effective way to stop drinking. It's not that some dude in the 30s figured this out systematically; the idea is that what he came up with has stuck around because he stumbled into what we now know is effective treatment.

Day 8 check-in. Early start to work, so got home around 3pm, while wife and kids got home at 5. A normal big drinking opportunity that I easily avoiding with podcasts and doing chores at home.

Day 9 check in and all is well.

The only thing I know with 100% certainty about AA is that it has kept me sober for 22 years. I am eternally grateful I was able to overcome my initial hesitations and just take suggestions.

Anyone in the Jersey Shore area? I'm on my honeymoon in Ocean City. My wife and I have hit a few meetings. I was asked to be a speaker at a meeting tomorrow in Somer's something. I forgot the name but have it somewhere.

About the whole wife thing. First woman I ever met where we were just friends for a while. Then something happened and 3.5 years later we're married.

We went to NYC for the day and she walked my ass off. One of her former addictions was marathons! We hit a mtg in NYC today. All the ones I've been to up here have been real cool. I've heard some people really talk about them struggling. That's awesome when people open up and get honest. Very solutions based mtgs.

Interesting with the quitting. Alcohol is starting to be a distant memory as one year without is approaching. Best to let it be an ever more distant memory.

Day 14 check-in. All is well. Had someone message me asking me if everything was ok, so I am posting. Appreciate the support! I just didn't need to post every day and make this thread completely about me when I didn't have much to add.

My last two weeks has been working and getting things done around the house and trying to fix my home relationships. Not giving myself any chance to go out alone and do something stupid.

Thursday is the first day I'll be spending time with people who I've told I've quit drinking that aren't close family. I'm not worried about drinking at the tailgate, just their perception and the potential awkwardness. It will become natural as time goes on. The only real risk of the tailgate is after the game I might decide that I deserve to drink and then get something on the way home, so I plan on listening to podcasts during the lightrail back to my car and on the car ride home, so since I've envisioned the issue, I can plan and solve it ahead of time.

Will do a check-in on Friday after the tailgate/game.

that_pope,

Glad things are going well. Definitely good to plan ahead of time and figure out things that might be potential triggers. I wouldn't worry about perception or whatever. In my experience people are supportive. If anyone does make a fuss you're within your rights to assert yourself strongly.

LFS,

I meant to post something earlier, hope you're doing better. I very much doubt everything is failing around you, but I know it's hard to see things clearly when you're in the swamp. It's a bad feeling not to trust your own brain to give you an accurate version of reality. I've been there.

that_pope -

I am too lazy to look up your earlier posts to see how much you were drinking, but I always felt like 2 weeks was when I could feel in the clear from withdrawal symptoms. Congrats on making it that far! From a physical perspective, you’ve gotten past the hardest part.

A couple things on recent posts -

People always want to label. People want to label a person an alcoholic or a problem drinker or a weekend warrior or a heavy drinker. Or, people (AA in particular) want to differentiate between alcoholism and drug addiction, when alcohol is classified as a drug and can ONLY be differentiated from illegal drugs by its legality. Don’t listen to any of that.

Addiction is addiction is addiction, and the sooner you realize that addiction is actually on a huge spectrum, the better off you’ll be. There is no difference between problem drinkers and alcoholics lol. They are all just somewhere on the spectrum. If alcohol, or any drug, is causing problems in your life, and you can’t quit, then you lay somewhere along the addiction spectrum. Now on that huge spectrum, you’re going to see some drastic differences between someone who is mildly addicted and someone who is full blown, but don’t kid yourself: if someone hasn’t become a full blown alcoholic, it’s ONLY because their addiction hasn’t progressed to that point. Realize that the most absolute of addiction’s qualities is it’s progressive nature. Your addiction, as mild or as bad as it will be, will only get worse if you continue to press that button. It’s comforting to know that it’s impossible for your addiction to stay at the same level, and that it will just get worse. You might stall it for a bit because you have obligations to fulfill, or things in place that prevent it from progressing rapidly, but it will progress - if only at a snail’s pace. Some alcoholics progress slowly until their death, and their addiction never becomes “full-fledged”. Maybe they drink every night until they die. But make no mistake - they are addicts, addicted.

People have a hard time admitting this because they want to classify themselves or others as one thing or another, or to try to make themselves feel different from another, or make others seem different from them. It is absolute nonsense.

In my late 20’s I went from a “heavy social drinker” to a very bad alcoholic in a matter of a few years because I had great genes for it and a lot of disposable income and no responsibilities. I had to lose everything multiple times to get sober, and even then I barely made it.

When I see people like you (I apologize if I am making certain assumptions about your drinking history), I greatly admire you, because it seems that things were just getting bad - it’s not taking everything from you. I couldn’t have done that.

I always struggle coming up with good advice to people who want to quit alcohol because for me, it had to get so terrible it was either that or death. I feel like nothing I say will make a difference because they will inevitably go back to it.

Regardless, as an alcoholic, I still feel it’s my obligation to say something when I see someone winning a battle versus their addiction. So, please read what I have to say on the topic:

My addictions to alcohol and cocaine are by far the best things that ever happened to me. I finally realized how to feel good about myself from the inside out when I got sober. I never knew that I had such a low opinion of myself, that I wanted to be someone else. That I felt inferior to everyone around me for no reason and that I questioned everything I said, analyzing it and trying to come up with a better way to say it. I never knew that I had never given my love to anyone because I was too worried that they would leave me. I never knew that I had never been able to be my real self around other people. I never realized how judgemental I was, and how I needed to look down on everyone around me to pretend to feel better about myself. I was narcissistic, selfish, and childish.

I got along fine - even great - in life. I was smart, had friends, had girls, had a good family, lived in some cool places. But I was ****ing miserable. And I would have never known how to get better if I didn’t get sober.

Today, I am nothing special, nothing great, nothing like I would have wanted in my ever-so-grandiose plans for myself as a young man (and adult). But I can look at myself in the mirror and be happy with what i see - a good man. I don’t hurt people, I help where I can, I don’t lie. I don’t make other people feel bad about themselves while trying to feel better about myself. I’m kind, patient, and thoughtful. And I go to sleep easy knowing I *usually* did a good job trying my best that day as a man and as a human.

AA is a great tool for helping to stay sober, sure. Having ppl around who have been thru it is a valuable thing indeed, and the group therapy you get from the meetings is of course a positive thing to be a part of. My thought with AA is always: of course it works!! I’d say it’s correct that they stumbled upon something quite great. The same format would be really effective in helping people with just about anything I think. But dont let people convince you it’s the only way, that’s simply not true. Replacing bad habits with good ones is another extremely effective way to stay sober.

Remember that our chemical addictions are always tied to some degree to what I like to call “our sh*t”. Childhood issues or whatever. No one had a perfect childhood and everyone has some sort of issue or issues from it. I just think that we, the addicts, completely avoided ever dealing with it. Dealing with that stuff is to me the most important part of staying sober, whether doing it in a meeting or in therapy or on your own.

Lastly, the thing that has kept me sober was just seeing the evidence firsthand of how much better my life has gotten. If you stick it out, your life will just keep getting better. Your eyes will see more clearly, your brain will think more sharply, you will find you are more loving, more kind, more confident, more charismatic than you thought. And most importantly, you’ll really be living - you’ll be out there living in the world rather than hiding from it.

GL

Day 19 check-in. Everything is fine. Want to type up about the ASU game and also respond to Oladipo's post when I have time later today.

As a fellow recovering addict, very well said oladipo. I'm sometimes a contrarian but I can't disagree with anything. I need to catch up on the thread as its helped me. Oddly enough I considered making an ama. Forgot this exists so it's not necessary.

I especially related to the part about questioning everything I said and did and wondering if I could have done it better. Sadly I still do that.

It took me a few times trying to get clean and I always kinda thought something would just "click". It doesn't. But you chug along and I guess you kinda just realize you know you're done. It doesn't sound appealing anymore and when I think about dope I don't think about the euphoria is feel, I think about how I'd only be doing it to tear everything down because I don't deserve it. Maybe because it's all pointless, **** like that. If you want to just get totally clean this has been my experience.

Made a couple you statements there , BAD Vega. But not fixing it.

Great message, Oladipo. I really took a lot from it. Good stuff.

I am bad at posting updates here. Day 20 update.

So Thursday was the ASU game and tailgate. Except the tailgate didn't happen. Due to work and some people out of town, two of the families just went to Four Peaks, a local brewpub that I've been to dozens of times. They were getting there pretty early, before I was even getting off of work, so I thought it would be pretty easy to pass on that and just meet them at the game. So I wasn't around and alcohol pre-game, but ASU just started serving beer throughout the stadium this year, so it is all around me in the stands, where in years past, it was me being the only one sneaking a beer or two into the game.

This weekend a few different times the thought of drinking crossed my mind, but I got through it. The urge seems stronger when I am hungry, so my solution to it when it happens is either eating something for a snack and/or putting on a recovery podcast. If anyone is interested in my thoughts on them, or have any of their own they use, that would be great. The ones I listen to are:
-Alcohol Mastery
-Sober Guy Podcast (not every episode, about both drugs and alcohol)
-Recovery Elevator

Things are going better at home and obviously good at work since I am never tired/hungover recently. But I am giving in to other temptations, mainly food related to 'reward' myself for staying away from alcohol. Maybe once the urges get fewer and far between I can start to focus on less treats/snacks, but first things first.

Hey guys, I feel a bit of an obligation to try to contribute to the thread.

My first post in this thread was in November of 2010. I shook my fist at the sky and solemnly declared to this thread that I was going to quit drinking.

I continued drinking for nearly eight more years, which included dozens, if not hundreds, of identical solemn declarations.

Then in July of this year it all finally caught up with me. The woman I had planned to spend my life with left me, my finances were in ruins, my life was collapsing all around me. I chugged vodka from the moment I woke up to the moment I passed out for a month straight. I was very close to suicide. Finally on August 20th I decided that I should probably try to live instead, and I sent LFS a PM.

I'd tried a few AA meetings in the past and it had never stuck. As an atheist I was too hung up on the higher power stuff, and I think I had a little bit of bad luck in that those first few meetings had a lot of overtly religious people in them, and I was never quite able to get comfortable. So I asked LFS basically, how the hell do I get past this God ****, because if I don't make this work I'm gonna be dead or living under a bridge. And what he said was, "I used to think I had to believe in stuff in order to do it. Turns out, some things I need to do them in order to believe." And that was like, a thunderbolt of clarity for me.

So I went to some more meetings and I just listened to what I was told. I didn't argue. I didn't intellectualize. I just wanted to live. And after a few days it started to click, especially after I met my current sponsor, who chairs a beginner's meeting and is open and up front about his atheism.

All AA really asks you to do is accept that you're not the most powerful thing in the universe, that because of your disease alcohol is actually more powerful than you are. And as alcoholics we have to accept that, because otherwise our brains are just going to lead us right back to drinking, with every imaginable type of rationalization. We have to say "Nope, on this topic I'm not the boss anymore. I'm putting someone else in charge." And that thing can be God, the Universe, the group, it can be the ****ing moon. It doesn't matter.

Now I've only been sober for 63 days at this point, but what I've realized is that I have never truly been sober before. I've had periods of time when I've not been drinking, but never a time when alcohol wasn't really in the driver's seat. I wasn't drinking, but I was still obsessed with drinking, plotting my way back to it.

I can't even really explain it, but all I know is I don't feel that obsession anymore. I'm not cured, there is no cure yet, and as alcoholics we can never get complacent. But somehow, someway, committing to this program has dislodged alcohol from the driver's seat of my mind. It's still in the car mind you, but now it's more like a petulant child screaming from the back seat.

And the turnaround in my life has been completely insane in its speed and scope. I've started a new career that I really enjoy in a field I never thought I'd end up in. I've found a new passion in rock climbing and fitness, I spend like 12 hours a week in the gym and I'm already in the best shape of my life. I'm excising toxic relationships and building a whole new social circle full of productive, positive people, rather than the band of nihilistic alcoholics I formerly rolled with. I've rediscovered playing music. I've gotten my life back after 10 years in the wilderness, and I am just insanely happy and grateful and looking forward to helping other alcoholics achieve similar things through the program.

And I've also found that all those nonsense ideas I had about quitting drinking- that I'd be miserable, bored, lonely, not funny, not able to talk to people, not able to talk to women- it was all bull****. I'm more social and outgoing and engaging now than I've ever been. I still get melancholy about my lost relationship, but overall I'm happier and more optimistic than ever.

I know some people might be like "wow, this guy's really on a high horse for being two months sober, when he slips it's gonna be hilarious" but at this point returning to my old way of living, and throwing away everything I've gained, is just inconceivable to me. And a meeting, my sponsor, or another alcoholic who is willing to help me is never more than a short drive or a phone call away.

To wrap up this 5,000 word monstrosity, I just hope that if somebody reads this who's suffering like I was, it inspires them to give the program a genuine try. For me, finding the right sponsor was key- keep going to meetings until you find a guy you jive with, and ask that guy to sponsor you. Chances are he'll be happy to do so.

Thanks so much to LFS, and to everyone else who's contributed to this thread over the years, and I wish everybody the best of luck fighting this disease.

What an inspiring post, great job!

Right on, daimonos. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for sharing, daimonos, and good luck!

Especially the atheist analysis moved me.

Right the **** on, daimonos. Any opportunity to be of service to another alcoholic is the only sure-fire way I know to get out of my own head, even for a minute. So thank you for that opportunity, it means truly everything. You're providing exactly that kind of service by making that post, and will have many more opportunities in the future. So keep coming back, man, I'll see you in the rooms!

First time looking through this thread as I definitely wanna give giving up a go. Guess I should start with a backstory of myself. I'm 23 and been drinking for 10 years already. From 13-16 I only ever drank at weekends as it was the "cool" thing to do. Although I was young I'd always drink enough to make myself blackout, well to the point I couldn't remember much of what happened. I've probably lost around 1 years worth of memories overall.

When I reached 16-17 and school went to **** for me I ended up drinking more and through the week. Maybe 3-4 times a week. I think those were the years that really messed my life and head up. At around 18 I started to get hangovers real real bad where I couldn't leave bed or basically do anything for 2 days after drinking. My head was a mess all over.

I got diagnosed withe anxiety and depression around 19, I've been on meds ever since for it. Had a lot of issues with self harm over the years. Thought about suicide a few times but don't really think I have it in me for that.

I'm not sure why I decided to write here I guess I feel I can't really open up anywhere else. I've tried with doctors and addiction counselling etc but my anxiety makes it super hard for me to actually speak face to face with people about my drinking.

About 1 month ago I found out I'm gonna become a dad. I don't want my child brought up to see me as an alcoholic. I had my last drink at the weekend just past. The longest I've ever went without a drink since I started was around a month or so when I was 18 as it was part of my bail conditions when I got in trouble (arrested for attempted murder) later all charges would be dropped as I didn't actually do anything but that's a story for another time.

If anyone has any suggestions or questions or anything at all that may help reply here or shoot me a pm. My writings kinda crappy so anyone that made it through thanks for taking the time to read

I have been trying to let go of my addiction and after reading this I am more motivated than ever to do so