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Old 01-07-2018, 12:27 AM   #76
Ten5x
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
this x 1000. Calling a typical homeopath a con-artist is too harsh. I assume the vast majority of the homeopaths are just people peddling garbage because they're dumb. Same with all the energy bracelets and who knows what else. As long as the homeopath isn't similar to those fortune tellers that basically just try to trick people into giving them large amounts of money ( https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-crime/382738/ ), as opposed to flat rates, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It will be similar to just seeing a less trained psychologist. I would voice your opinion once or twice and drop it.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:25 AM   #77
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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You have very teenagery attitude towards this situation. I have no idea how old you are, but from all that talk, I would assume 20 sth. Try to develop more understanding for emotional life of your mom. For her it is not bull****. And that counts.
I couldn't imagine being this condescending and patronizing to my friends and loved ones.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:48 AM   #78
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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Originally Posted by Ten5x View Post
this x 1000. Calling a typical homeopath a con-artist is too harsh. I assume the vast majority of the homeopaths are just people peddling garbage because they're dumb. Same with all the energy bracelets and who knows what else. As long as the homeopath isn't similar to those fortune tellers that basically just try to trick people into giving them large amounts of money ( https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-crime/382738/ ), as opposed to flat rates, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It will be similar to just seeing a less trained psychologist. I would voice your opinion once or twice and drop it.
Well except they'll have clients that are actually in need of medical treatment and they'll knowingly sell em placebo.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:02 AM   #79
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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Ironic, isn’t it considering I run a fairly large Western-style medical practice?

Do you know the Hippocratic Oath is do no harm.

That is the baseline I use to judge things.

I think 13 out of last 14 cancer drugs FDA approved don’t do anything at all. A placebo handed by a doctor works though.

Is chiropractic medicine a scam?
This is false. Your ignorance astounds.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:08 AM   #80
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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Well except they'll have clients that are actually in need of medical treatment and they'll knowingly sell em placebo.
You have to believe in the efficacy for there to be any healing power!
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:56 AM   #81
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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For many of these 60+ older people they are just lonely.

Ignored by their kids, they generally have 0 friends or social groups. These two hours might be something they really enjoy, even if the benefits are negligible.

so $85 or w/e for 2 hours of "therapy" for a 60+ y/o person ?? thats a steal.

it only becomes bad if it starts ballooning past the cost of having a therapist or some equivalent. or the advice they give becomes harmful in any significant way. if those two criteria are not met, this probably does more good then harm.

think of it as $85 for a "friend" for 2 hours, someone that cares about them and wants to make $ from it.


Spoiler:


So true. I am sometimes astounded by the amount of time older people spend at doctor’s offices with no serious ailments. We have one patient that comes to us daily. Now we aren’t allowed social visits so she is quite adept at concocting some injury or problem each day. And we are in a challenging spot denying a patient who will go to the medical board and complain.

She will also spend 4 hours in our office. Reason being is she wants to see the full impact of her medication.

She calls 911 on the weekends and complains of a heart attack. They are required by law to go attend to her. She may well one day have a heart attack, call, nobody shows up, and then you have a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:02 AM   #82
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

And we wonder why people go alternative...

***They took a look at the track record of 48 cancer drugs—heralded as 'wonder' and 'breakthrough' drugs before their approval—that were approved by the European Medicines Agency between 2009 to 2013.

In truth, almost none of them had much evidence that they could improve survivability or quality of life when they won approval, and there was still little evidence even more than three years after they had been on the market.***

https://wddty.com/news/2017/10/the-w...dont-work.html
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:36 AM   #83
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

Scammers gotta stick together I guess?
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:20 AM   #84
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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I couldn't imagine being this condescending and patronizing to my friends and loved ones.
You are being far to easy on yourself.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:49 AM   #85
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

From the little I read it works thru inducing the placebo effect. IN that vein it's not really a scam cuz the placebo effect works and has been a staple of medicine with humans since before civiliazation and may actually help you dad. I'd be more worried about the "like cures like" part of homeopathy tho as they think that something would cause a disease in a healthy human will cure the same disease in a sick person. All I can think is that could just get someone who is sick even worse.


The placebo effect or power of suggestion is just part of the the machine of the human being tho, it using endogenous drugs to works on problems but science at this point seems to young and obtuse to really dig into as far as I know. I mean science is just getting around to studying other yogic exercises and realizing there is more to it than the woo woo BS of most of what they call "alternative", when really this is just ancient medicine that modern science is just getting around to actually studying instead of ****ting on.



In short the placebo effect is a mechanism that can be used but I don't know wtf these homeopaths are putting in people's bodies to induce it. You can do it easier and safer if you use something like meditation or other means.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:59 AM   #86
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

tom brady uses a scam doctor too but still came back from a 28-3 deficit against the atlanta falcons in the super bowl
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:05 PM   #87
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

Dk,

TB12 tho
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:12 PM   #88
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

Worth a read:

Quote:
...advice from elite athletes is often cluttered with pseudoscientific explanations for their stupendous results. The problem is that gifted athletes don’t necessarily know how they got that way. Or, in the words of David Epstein, author of “The Sports Gene,” “Just because you’re a bird doesn’t mean you’re an ornithologist.”
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...cience-advice/
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:58 PM   #89
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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Scammers gotta stick together I guess?
So weasels of a feather ... ?
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:06 PM   #90
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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Originally Posted by uradoodooface View Post
In short the placebo effect is a mechanism that can be used but I don't know wtf these homeopaths are putting in people's bodies to induce it. You can do it easier and safer if you use something like meditation or other means.
Hard to get any safer than homeopathic medicine, as the active ingredient is so diluted you would need to give two billion doses per second to six billion people for 4 billion years to deliver a single molecule of the original material to any patient.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:31 PM   #91
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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So true. I am sometimes astounded by the amount of time older people spend at doctor’s offices with no serious ailments. We have one patient that comes to us daily.
***us***?

you aren't a doctor.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:34 PM   #92
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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***us***?



you aren't a doctor.

Adorable.

Who do you think is in control of the US healthcare system?

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2015/07...ista-docs.html
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:46 PM   #93
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

It really is amazing. To get FDA approval for a cancer drug, you just have to submit data that indicates a patient may live longer. You are not even required to track it after approval. And they cost ~$150,000 a year that we all pay for in higher health insurance costs.

Welcome to the big con. Homeopathy is child’s play. And it doesn’t hurt anybody.

Quote:
In a November study published in JAMA Internal Medicine, researcher Diana Zuckerman looked at 18 approved cancer drugs that didn’t help patients live longer. Only one had clear data showing that it improved patients’ lives, such as by relieving pain or fatigue.

Two drugs harmed quality of life. For example, thyroid cancer patients taking the most expensive drug, cabozantinib, scored worse on a scale measuring five symptoms: diarrhea, fatigue, sleep disturbance, distress and memory issues, Zuckerman said.
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Old 01-07-2018, 04:28 PM   #94
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

When was golfnutt freed from his containment thread?
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:14 PM   #95
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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Originally Posted by uradoodooface View Post
From the little I read it works thru inducing the placebo effect. IN that vein it's not really a scam cuz the placebo effect works and has been a staple of medicine with humans since before civiliazation and may actually help you dad. I'd be more worried about the "like cures like" part of homeopathy tho as they think that something would cause a disease in a healthy human will cure the same disease in a sick person. All I can think is that could just get someone who is sick even worse.
Homeopathy is based on 2 principles that fly in the face of everything we know about biochemistry (to be fair, they were laid out before we understood biochemistry). There's 'like cures like', which is obviously backwards, and also the idea that the more dilute something is the more powerful it is. That's obviously wrong too but the people laying it out didn't understand molecules and receptor-ligand interactions.

They do a series of 1:100 dilutions and smack the vial each time. That smack is supposed to transfer the magic or essence from the original substance into the dilution, and the more 1:100 dilutions you do the stronger the magic gets. They sell products that have been through this process 200x and you can buy them at friggin Walgreens. Wiki brings the lols

Quote:
Another example given by a critic of homeopathy states that a 12C solution is equivalent to a "pinch of salt in both the North and South Atlantic Oceans",[95][96] which is approximately correct.[97] One-third of a drop of some original substance diluted into all the water on earth would produce a preparation with a concentration of about 13C.[94][98][99] A popular homeopathic treatment for the flu is a 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum. As there are only about 10^80 atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10^320 more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance.

Last edited by JayTeeMe; 01-07-2018 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:22 PM   #96
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

Ah, good to see 2+2's resident mountebank defending his brethren.
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:32 PM   #97
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

Pleasantly surprised by the responses in this thread. His mom just wants to feel better and if it's not damaging or expensive who cares?


People give the Steve Jobs thing too much flak. It's a very major surgery that rarely helps and he wanted to take a few months to consider all of his options and it turns out it had already spread to his liver, so tap tap to him anyways.
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:38 PM   #98
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

Yeah, saying "Steve Jobs would still be alive today" is incredibly silly. Spending 9 months sacrificing goats or whatever certainly didn't help but there's no way to know either way. Maybe it moved him from a 3 outer to a 1 outer or something.
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:12 PM   #99
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

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Yeah, saying "Steve Jobs would still be alive today" is incredibly silly. Spending 9 months sacrificing goats or whatever certainly didn't help but there's no way to know either way. Maybe it moved him from a 3 outer to a 1 outer or something.


I tend to agree with you. Traditional doctors love to throw it around as fact. It tars alternative medicine and makes themselves appear more legitimate without having to prove it.

Jobs was smart and I am sure he did research. Most likely fighting a losing battle and he gambled. Your analogy regarding outs is apt.

Personally, I find alternative natural things like the OP posted as harmless scams. The Vitamin D is a parlor trick to buy a modicum of credibility. What you are really getting is to be with someone for an extended period. A rare commodity nowadays.
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:59 PM   #100
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Re: Parents getting scammed by a conwoman ("homeopathist"), anything I can do?

Steve Jobs had a form of cancer so nasty he was just dead, and was probably rational in trying whatever existed, since an 0.0001% chance was better than a 0% chance.
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