i still havent heard much of blackjazz, i'm not really into metal these days and they are moving futher away from the music i'm interested in.
But kingdom of kitsch and grindstone are awesome, definately one of the most interesting modern bands around. Insane rhythms and incredible production

glad to see them mentioned here.

There are good metal bands and bad metal bands just as there are in any other genre of music and the good metal bands have just as good of an understanding of music theory as other good composers - however it manifests itself differently and you have to learn what sort of things to listen for. Most people aren't used to listening to music that uses a pentatonic scale or is full of blast beats so it's easy to get overwhelmed until you get used to it. With metal, especially death metal, a lot of the interesting stuff is found in the rhythms rather than the melody - although with that said, the bands I enjoy the most are the ones that figure out how to incorporate real melody in there as well without sacrificing the intensity. An example. Personally though I've just always been drawn to music that's dark, intense, and beautiful. And there is a lot of metal that I would consider beautiful. From one of my favorite albums.

these are the only videos i've found on youtube where the vuvuzela button is an improvement

k but for serious, i consider myself pretty open minded wrt music but this just sounds like awful noise to me. i don't want to troll here, i'm just curious what i should be looking for in these songs? is the strength of the musicianship in the drummer? a lot of the songs sound super similar to me yet you guys are seemingly able to classify the bands into different subgroups, what are the differences?

(these are serious questions, i'm not trying to troll. i've seriously never met anyone who liked this music and know nothing about it)

Soah, that's cool. I'm actually enjoying this thread. Most of this stuff is so far from my taste, but it's rhythmically really interesting, and it's interesting to see music being pushed so far in one direction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_subgenres

Which songs?

Again, any genre has good and bad bands and there are some metal songs that are simple and suck, some are simple but still fun, and others are really interesting.

post your 5 favorite bands/musical acts so i can laugh at you.

Yeah, Meshuggah is just an unbelievable band. I have a lot of MetalHead musician friends that can play the crap out of just about all of the brutal and extreme metal music out there. Most of them can barely follow, let alone play, certain Meshuggah songs.

Playing fast is easy, but their patterns and syncopations are insane. Their song "I" is straight psychotic. Just when you think you figured out the pattern, they flip it on you.

If you're just looking for proof of the level of musicianship, then you're best off listening to the more current bands. The production in some of those older records is awful. There are so many more tricks now that even bad players can sound slick and polished.

The thing that makes it work for me, though, is that there's always (well on the three songs I've heard) a steady 4/4 beat underneath the madness. It makes it so much more accessible. Plus, their vocalist seems to have less of a death-metal Cookie Monster thing going on than a lot of those guys, like more of a HC vibe, which I like a lot better.

you probably would. maybe i'll make a side thread called "why do we like the music we do?" since you would likely cringe as much at my music as i do at this and i find that interesting.

fwiw stevie ray vaughan, third eye blind, alter bridge, john butler, dave matthews (lol cliche college kid) are around the top of my list.

soah i think that song you posted, death - suicide machine, was pretty interesting but i don't think i can get past the doom and gloom aspect or the scratchy voice. when i tried to focus only on the 'melody' i was able to make it through the whole song and it was actually kinda cool.

thanks for entertaining my trolling questions for a few posts, i'll leave you guys to continue your discussion

The vocals are why I can't listen to this stuff that much anymore. It was awesome when I was a kid, but not now. That's why it takes a pretty special band to get me interested.

Meshuggah in 4/4 is just as sick as a pattern of theirs thats 5:4 over 17/16 played 11 times. "Bleed" off of their last album is a perfect example. It's not just the regular Dudadun dun dun dudadun dun dun or Dudadun Dudadun Dudadun Dudadun. It's all Dudadun dun dun dudadun dun dudadun dun dun dun dudadun dudadun dun dun.

Okay, I think this would be a good song to use to illustrate some of what I am talking about:

Carcass - Corporal Jigsore Quandary

The structure of this song makes it easier to pick apart the different things that are going on - in the intro you get the drums playing a certain thing, then one guitar comes in playing the same rhythm, but since guitars can play notes and chords and stuff, you get a bit of melody involved. Then the second guitar comes in playing a similar melodic line, but without the rhythmic complexities. (Sadly the song is a bit too repetitive and gets boring, but it's tough to beat the first minute of it.)

This sort of overlay between the instruments is what makes the music interesting to me. Sometimes they will all be playing the exact same rhythm... sometimes they will play similar stuff that complements the other.

Something else that you get a lot of in extreme metal is that the guitar will often be hitting the same note repeatedly - sometimes this is part of the melody and sometimes it is not so you have to be able to sort of what is going on. In most types of music the guitar is just going to be playing chords - in very fast metal it is not possible to play chords at that speed so instead you may just get a single note that represents the root of the chord.

So for example in a song like this one: Amon Amarth - The Pursuit of Vikings the guitars at the beginning keep playing a single note in a rhythm which is eventually picked up by the drums, while the melodic line is then woven in starting at 0:39. In passages like this you can have a single instrument that is providing both the bassline and the melody. I would not consider Amon Amarth to be an exceptional band but in this song it is really easy to hear what I am talking about. For more of a challenge you could try picking apart something such as Death - Flattening of Emotions.

fwiw the lyrics of that song are a commentary on the ethics of assisted suicide

As much as I like to say that I don't pay any attention to the lyrics of what I listen to, the fact of the matter is that some bands do bother me and I don't think it's a coincidence that there's only band I really like where I don't respect the people in it (Dissection). Some of the old black metal bands sound like a bunch of huge *******s but most of these guys don't take the stuff so seriously. All of the songs on the aforementioned Carcass album "Necroticism – Descanting the Insalubrious" discuss a creative manner in which to dispose of a corpse. It's a joke. Some of the lyrics are hilarious. This one is about using the bodies as musical instruments:

Striking up my discordant underture
A carnal cacophony perversely penned
Transposed...and decomposed
On strings fashioned from human twine
Lovingly wound and fretted upon my bow
Garishly incarcerated...the dead resonate
In a final death-throe

Vibrant as I thresh...
Movements scripted for the dead...

Orchestral horrors I vehemently conduct
My corpus concertos cordial
Disinterred... and detuned
With six feet below
In harmony with the deceased
My inspiration...your disintegration
For my latest masterpiece

My scope creeps your flesh...
Notes seep from sinewy frets...

But don't hold your breath
As you wait for your god or the void
Or the abyss of nothingness
Your usefulness isn't through
Your productivity I resume...

My sorbid, soiled handicrafts
Will be your afterlife's handicap....

...My corrupt crescendos...
...Will leave you out on a limbo...
...Your disposition I unleash...
...You will rest in my piece...

With deadly dynamics
You're dead, buried and barred
Your remains dampened and fingered
Your mortal coil is barbed
The death-bells are peeling
Ringing out as you flake
Shrieking out their recitals
A celebration of your wake...

Enter my funereality
My world two metres under
A curious habitat
Your muddy trench I plunder
Pass on to ethereality
Churned out under the sextant's blade
You live your life in wretchedness
And death is no escape...

Wow. Aside from Post-Hearwork, those are about as simple of lyrics as you'll get from Carcass.

Oh, if that's the case, then I deffo like extreme metal.

I just call them metal though.

Arch Enemy btw everyone. Melody and noise <3 <3 And the hottest/scariest woman in death metal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33U3bGZOcX8#t=1m0s

Kataklysm

They've been around for a long time but are still putting out new stuff. Some of their old stuff is really heavy/trashy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gawms8BM3o (somewhat recent)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CDv5PSsmE (older stuff)

---

Kalmah

Not too well known (mentioned them in the other metal thread). Melodic death metal. Pretty much known for some of the most epic intros ever created in the history of the universe. Extremely talented IMO. Not sure why they never took off in the states.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L4rHQu3npQ (recent)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf6W7kqxmn4 (older stuff)

I'll include this song since even though Slayer are old, this is from the 2000s and doesn't sound like it's from the 80s.

Slayer - Bloodline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SdmsWBO7O4

Kalmah is great poker music imo

Yeah, until you make up a game where whenever you get goosebumps you have to shove ATC in the next hand. You'll be at 500/1000 or busto in about an hour.

I forgot there was an Ex-Candiria band member who is also a 2p2 member. I think we have discussed it before.

IMO: The music went down hill when Carly started singing and the music got more melodic. They were def not known for there "stereo typical" melodies. Just by your comment you can admit that the first 3 albums are def there best and what should be recommended to a possible new fan of Candiria.

I remember seeing them buying there CD's back in the glory days (circa 94-98). And they really changed there sound. They didn't sell out as bad as V.O.D but IMO they were going for a more mainstream sound. To try and capture a bigger fan base. Which nowadays at 31 I really cant blame them I would probably want to do the same. BUT when i was a teenager/young 20's and caught up in the "hardcore" keeping it real mentality it bothered me. It still does suck when one of your favorite bands changes there sound so drastically though. (see the new All That Remains album "whether you like them or not" for a prefect example)

I spoke about them as a 3rd party since you have previously said that you were basically a fill in member and didn't really write the music. No disrespect meant to you.

A few lesser known bands I like:

Glass Casket

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YOi1...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klmcgbYKSWE

the crimson armada

they're a "christian band" and all the lyrics about about jesus and **** but idc. The video looks like a joke cuz the vocalist is a skinny asian dude

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ8akbP1ki0

Textures

I would describe them as a slightly mellower/groovier version of meshuggah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB1x3...eature=related

Necrophagist

I guess they're pretty well known, whatev

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9RJXWxth5g

You just don't like the music so you don't understand it.

I don't like certain styles of music so I wouldn't know how to differentiate it into different sub-genres either.

To me all soft/radio/pop/indie rock all sound ****ty and the same. I can tell the difference between most sub-genres of Punk/Hardcore and Metal. But I've been listening to this **** since I was about 9-10 years old. I can actually understand a lot of the lyrics/vocals without having to actually read the lyrics. In a sense it's almost like understanding a different language.

I'm going to enjoy going through this thread and hopefully finding some new bands to check out. Hopefully this thread gets a lot of pages with You-tube links.