In my experience the girl goes for the hug at the beginning more often than not. If she doesn't I usually don't. But if there's not at least a hug by the end then there won't be a second date.

Is it really normal for dates to end with little physical contact? Thinking back over my dating experience, if the first date went well enough for there to be a second there's usually at least kissing before the end of the night, unless the girl is shy/conservative. maybe my dating sample is abnormal or I'm making an unintentional humblebrag though.

Theres so such thing as telling Nick a couple of moves or rules to perform on a date so it goes better.

What Nick needs is a change of mindset. Being introverted or being himself has nothing to do with it.

I agree with the Dean. I think most who do very well with women are very introverted and have thought about it and self reflected on it a lot.

Nick has been resistant to change. From the remarks about clothes before to general comments. I realise its hard to change your set ways. But come on Nick, noone prefers boring routine to adventures, specially when you dont have a family depending on you. Were too lazy, scared, unmotivated, ignorant, to go for it, yes. But we dont prefer that. Lets be honest with ourselves.

This whole " im a professor who wears a shirt and sportcoat and im meeting an mba girl so we shoukd fit" thing isnt gonna work. I have a feeling its not very congruent with what you really want either.

Theres a more perverted nastier side to you ( which we all have) that youre consciously denying which makes you boring, stiff and you convery an aura of desperation.

Im the most introverted person i know, id probably jump off a cliff before doing theater or singing, have had the same guy friends all my life, but i still managed to change the way i am and do what i consider well with girls because i realised im a huge perv that really wants that.

Youre gonna need a change of attitude and the courage to act on it. That will help you with all women, especially the ones youre after.

Sorry, I don't think there is a consistent answer to these questions. Sometimes I make the women laugh a lot, sometimes I don't. Sometimes the dates last one hour, sometimes they last seven. As to "How's your sex appeal?"....I probably don't have the best perspective; I'd have to ask girls what they think.

Try not talking about politics and see how it goes.

I think I am resistant to change about some things and not others. I know there was a lot of discussion about my clothes before, but this isn't something I am resistant on...I just honestly think they are fine. I've changed a lot of things in this area over the last couple years, and my wardrobe was one of them (I also lost 30 pounds). If my clothes were bad, I don't think I would get as many first dates as I do from my profile, and what I wear IRL is the same as my profile pics.

I have also significantly changed my fundamental willingness to meet new people. A few years ago I would have deathly afraid of going on any sort of blind date, almost to the point of a panic attack. Now I do it all the time. But one of the reasons I am able to do it now is that I have routinized it in terms of locations and patterns I am comfortable with....I know that the only variable that will be uncertain is the person.

Now, if I can use different patterns of conversation to have more success, I am totally open to changing that. But I am not going to change my fundamental interests (like going bungee jumping, which I would never have any interest in IRL).

Sex. It means there is tension/energy because you are attracted to each other. Sounds like you are either aiming too high looks-wise or are boring/stale on dates. Also sample size so it could be nothing but never feeling this connection means you are doing something wrong.

I wouldn't do it if it seemed awkward. Usually you can tell with these sort of things and it is a good icebreaker believe it or not. And I take this to mean you never go for a kiss?

****ing lol at this ****

Date conversation especially, EVERYTHING should be geared towards sexual undertones. Stfu about bull**** politics and your boring ass personality/traits/self because really nobody cares. Especially not a vagina.

Honestly it sounds like you just need to go out and flirt with as many random girls as possible while not giving a **** about anything (even their names, who cares)

I always hug when first meeting the girl....and sometimes it does feel awkward so maybe I shouldn't.

If I'm smiling and happy because I like the way the girl looks IRL and if she seems genuinely happy to meet me, then I'll go for the hug/kiss (kiss esp. with the Latinas). Otherwise I don't risk it.

What Paul said.

I realize this thread is on 2+2 but that doesn't mean you need a pre-calculated optimal line/strategy for everything in dating. Be organic. Be unique. How do you think your date would feel if she knew you were executing from a playbook and you didn't want to hug her but felt you "should."

Same goes with all of the meta- in what you guys write to people.

Nice! And nice latina work! (I am like 90% enemy with all of the cute latina ladies due to religion I assume.)

Have a really awesome girl I am texting with now but trying not to get my hopes up. This will sound shallow and horrible but the last two okc dates I was on the girl ended up being really fat. I realize that is normal but they were *way* fatter than pics had let on and ofc self-described as "average"

Beware the vile "average" category!

+1

I think the optimal line in dating is to be spontaneous and adventurous, which obviously means no pre-calculation. That's typically hard to do for people on 2+2.

Go in with the confidence that you are a fun and spontaneous person. Like many have said in this thread, if you exude the confidence, then you're already halfway there.

I hate to sound like a wannabe patronizing dumb**** but im only elaborating because this is very familiar to me as i see a lot of what was holding me back in you. So if youre just sick of it tell me to stfu.

Its fine to first elaborate patterns and practical familiar crutches. Youre a rational practical guy that needs that as a foundation.

Def normal to pick a familiar location for a number of reasons.

But first, those patterns must be reexaminated constantly, especially when theyre not working.

And second, never underestimate the power of your state of mind, the underlying sort of mental state youre in. Itll come out whether youre aware of it or not.

Your ultimate goal is that by practicing bthese patterns, you wont need them anymore. They only serve to make you get out of your shell and experience enough dates that youll loosen up and be ale to have an attractive presence.

You could memorize an entire conversation but it still wont work if your mind is on an insecure overthinking overdrive, for example.

Im not saying you should like bungee jumping, but you should be the guy that, ifhe happened to like to bungee jump, hed do it. At least in term of dealing with females.

Once you make an effort to change your state of mind other things will come effortly, like body language etc....

When i first started going out a lot the girls id find hot but not really THAT much into, would be all over me. Then i met a couple of girls that i really liked and wanted as gfs, but it didnt work out. We went out but never led anywhere, became friends etc...

I made a conscious effort to put myself in a state of mind where id look at girls i liked like the ones i didnt really careabout that much. Instant results, honestly.

Not the same case but just trying to explain why your inner state of mind can have a lot of effects and let you experiment and venture into different patterns, conversations etc.... Until it becomes second nature to you.

Nick, have you tried anything other than coffee or drinks on a first date? Bungee jumping seems a bit extreme, but doing something other than sitting and having to make conversation about your lives might help. If you do something together, that gives you something in common, something to talk about, and a chance to joke around and have a little more fun without having to be charming and interesting in a vaccuum.

Doesn't matter what you do, but just doing something with someone--even a close friend--is usually more fun and interesting than just sitting and talking.

I guess you can squint at her like you're not sure if that's the girl from the photo, then cautiously approach asking her name with with a big question mark at the end, and start off with some awkward "nice to meet you."

or you can walk up, say "hey Rachel," give her a hug, "looks like there's a spot at the bar."

The girl from last night just wrote back to me with very honest feedback I think! I should have done this a long time ago! Clearly I am not being too "interviewy" or talking about my passions to little. This is very helpful because this was definitely not my impression of our conversation....I felt like I barely mentioned my research and that I kept trying to ask her questions and she didn't want to open up.

Nick tell us about the 2 girls you had LTR with, what were their personalities like?

For someone with the educational background she has, I'm surprised she doesn't know you're supposed to capitalize 'i' when referring to yourself.

this. i noticed significant improvement in my dating results and my own comfort on dates when i changed from sitting at a bar/coffee shot to shooting pool and having a drink. Just the fact that you are engaged in an activity together where you arent sitting face to face doing some QA session helped me a ton. Plus, if you are decent at pool or wahtever the activity is you can tease her a bit and you become more comfortable...

Nick,

Told you it couldn't hurt!

Sounds like you got some good feedback, and more importantly it wouldn't have even mattered in this case anyway. This chick wants to date a lumberjack, but thought she would give a professor a shot in case you happened to be like a Good Will Hunting type tough street kid turned professor, her ideal match of bad boy mechanic + intelligence + stable career, money etc + great looks and romance.

damn, that is a surprisingly useful response you got from her...

I would prefer not to talk in too many details....because it's not difficult to figure out who I am IRL, I want to respect the anonymity of other people in my life.

I will say they were very different from each other...my ex-wife was 4 years older than me and also very introverted. My more recent gf was 5.5 years younger than me and much more outgoing.

I had pool in mind as a good activity (or minigolf, or for someone like amazing, a batting cage). All of these also offer the opportunity to come up behind her, take both her hands, and show her how to shoot/putt/swing properly. Ladies love this move.