NickMPK,

It's a myth that girls just want to talk about themselves on dates. Talk about yourself like allllll the time. Then she will mirror you and also talk about herself.

I'm sorry for making you think about cats again and again and again (x20)

When bungee jumping goes terrible, you have a lot to lose.

I would never have a box of hornets, but otherwise a fairly accurate representation.

omg Please don't do this. I'll tell you exactly what went wrong once I catch up with this thread

This response rate is insanely high. Are you sure these aren't uggos you're sending messages to? ;-)

Nick, what questions do you ask? What do you talk about? Do they seem interested?

Here's the biggest part I think. THEY are looking for some sort of a connection. If they don't feel it then they won't be interested. You can have all the thoughts you want about not being able to experience that so soon but I think it is how the rest of society works at such things.

My wife and I didn't initially connect because of "that is very interesting what you are telling me and it is worthwhile to know that." We just talked and talked and made each other laugh, etc. I talked more about the band that was playing and why I liked them and about these random German guys I had met while I was waiting for her, etc.

But yeah, talk about yourself and your thoughts and whatever you're passionate about. Be confident. Be fun.

What, don't do that. Dating is a skill you are going to want to have until you're married, and OKC gives you free practice if things aren't working out for you.

I think everybody nailed the problem with you that you're a boring date. First you gotta learn how to have a conversation with a girl, which differs HEAVILY from a conversation you'd have with somebody on 2p2 or the academic world. I imagine that these two places kinda killed your social side but it's OK you can still reclaim it.

If you felt like you were being boring you probably were. Leave out any details or logical or analytical crap. At least for the 1st date. It's safe to share all of that stuff later once she likes you. If you feel yourself droning on for consecutive sentences, stop.

This is all something I had to go through after spending too much time on 2p2 and trying to re-assimilate in society. I felt horribly boring whenever I talked to girls and I could tell that sometimes they weren't following me. I had to learn to trim a TON of fat off conversations to normalize my interactions.

I'd say the thing that helped me most was to focus on saying just one sentence at a time. If I said two in a row it was because I wanted to change the subject. This will keep the conversation more spontaneous and prevent you from going down any analytical tangents.

Other than that remember to flirt, touch, tease, banter. Pay attention to the type of commentary that makes the girl laugh and try to bottle that up, and try to filter out the stuff that results in dead air. You can probably get there faster than you think if you really put your mind to it.

Do you guys usually go for a hug on a first date? Sometimes I do hug (light) and sometimes shake hands it is hard to know. In the US I would always go for a hug but in Hong Kong I am not so sure

YES

-hug when i meet them
-hug them to compliment them for something they said i like later
-hold their hand
-go for the kiss if it's there (if it's not i prob sucked. or she did )

edit- women still have estrogen in hong kong so i imagine you can do likewise. i say push the envelope and if it seems to be consistently inappropriate scale back from there.

Not like a business handshake, like a handshake where you shake their hand and then pat their shoulder like a social handshake I dunno

hmm hug ok

That sounds like an even more awkward handshake to me.

I suggest the handshake where you also reach around and pat her booty.

tbh Nick is going to be fine. He's introverted. There's nothing wrong with that. It makes him seem dull to girls now, but worst case scenario he's mostly single the next 5-10 years and then suddenly he'll be the hottest commodity on the 35-40 divorcee dating market: a nice, stable, thoughtful guy who has his **** together.

Nick: I think this has already been said itt, but I'm pretty sure there's a disconnect between what your profile represents you as and your actual personality. To wit, your profile makes you seem exciting and in fact you're not. It goes directly opposite of the usual profile-building advice, but if you made your profile project you as somewhat more stable but more boring, your message response rate will drop but you'll have successful first dates once in a while. That's my guess anyway.

At least a hug on the first date is super standard for me (US/PA). Making out for at least a few minutes more often than not. I can only remember one time there was no hug on the first date and a second date happened, and there were extenuating circumstances in that case.

Why not? It's not like I will ever talk to the girl again, so I don't see what I am losing by asking.

ICN- the solution is to make his real life personality more exciting, not his profile more boring.

even microbob had an exciting initial interaction with his wife. no woman's type is "boring" so let's just nip this one in the bud and stop recommending this as part of the "be yourself" package.

edit- nick, i've tried that before w/ my friends. she won't be able to give a productive answer. 2p2 will have much better advice. there's no downside but no upside either.

I agree with you like 95% of the time but Nick has made it clear several times in this thread that he is categorically uncomfortable with anything that would make his personality more exciting. Some people are just hardwired to be introverts and I suspect he is one of them.

He could really work at it and force himself to move closer to center on the introvert/extrovert scale and be a better conversationalist. He has it in himself to do that but it will feel like torture for him for a long time while he works on it. I always recommend 'be interesting' as the first piece of dating advice to anyone, but if he is simply unwilling or unable to do that he may just have to accept that this is who he is.

imo this is more than your usual internet nerd case where someone is just a loser and too lazy/delusional to change. Nick has a lot going for him, he just is very stressed by interacting under (perceived) pressure.

Oh for the hug/handshake I mean when we meet, not when we leave. I mean obviously I will go for a hug when we leave if it was any good at all. Sorry that wasn't clear in the original post.

No, it's not a matter of introvert/extrovert. That's whether you get energized being around people or being by yourself. The most elite womanizer I know is also by far the biggest introvert I know and I think there's little correlation between that and social smoothness. If anything being a huge introvert is a reason to change your ways to become more efficient so you spend less time interacting in extroverted environments to get what you want.

The changes he needs to make are not particularly difficult. If he doesn't want to do it the easy way, then gl him. I highly doubt online dating will work bc even if he has a lot going for him, girls will meet him and think "wow this guy is boring" and not meet again.

edit- the solution isn't to cater to his lack of adaptability. he either needs to adapt or probably not get what he wants.

I guess I had just always been told that the way to seem more sociable was to ask people about themselves and be interested in their lives, as opposed to just talking about yourself and your own interests. So this is what I have been trying to do. I'm not really sure how to talk about myself but "leave out details"....that doesn't seem like it would be a very long conversation.

Of course there's correlation between introversion/extroversion and social smoothness. The correlation isn't based on talent but on practice.

This part of your post is really good, though. I also think that as things stand I doubt online dating is going to work for him because he's just a boring first date.

That's a good start but it's not enough to just ask questions and act interested. You have to make her interested in you, too. Tell her about the interesting things you're doing. Be well read and have opinions about stuff without being preachy. ****, I regularly discuss politics and religion on dates and that's supposed to be the Cardinal Sin, yet I almost always either get a positive response. It's all in the presentation. You just have to be thought provoking and know how to pick up cues on whether to continue a line of conversation or shift it somewhere else.

I'm mostly with TheDean. The only exception is I think there are some girls with personalities that click well with introverted + "boring" guys. But they're rare and I don't think you'll have a better chance finding them by changing your profile. Nobody is passing on your profile because you don't appear boring enough for their tastes. You're better off with a profile that appears to a wide range of women and then selecting the ones you think you might get along with.

If you want to be successful with a wider range of women, follow the Dean's advice. Even if it's difficult, every little bit you can do will increase the pool of women who find you interesting. If you can't/refuse to change, you'll need to accept the fact that most women won't give you a second date. There's probably still someone out there for you, but she's going to be hard to find.

Yeah, I talk about politics on dates all the time too. I do have a lot of interesting conversations on these dates...many of times, I think they go a lot better than they apparently do because we seem to have good discussions, and the girl is laughing all the time, etc.

That certainly wasn't true on the date last night, though. I kept trying to bring up things about myself but she didn't really seem interested or engaged in any of them. And I tried asking her about herself but couldn't get much out of her. Which is especially strange, because she was the one who suggested we go out in the first place.

Nick, it's possible that this girl was just a really awkward person. Not every bad date is your fault, a lot of girls suck too.

That's a great way to connect with people in general, not for building attraction.

Describing yourself is not a horribly important part of social interactions. People really don't give a **** what you do. Girls do to the extent of how nice is your apartment/house and how much money you make, but that can be answered (or hinted at) rather briefly.

It's all about VIBING. She says something, you say a brief response that affirms you can relate, rinse wash repeat over and over. View it as an exchange of ENERGY LEVELS instead of a fact gathering opportunity about each other.

I think this normally happens when you see somebody repeatedly in a normal environment. Like if Nick has a co-worker who he talks to every day and they eventually realize they like each other and start dating. I don't think this translates to online dating where you have like 1 or 2 hours to establish chemistry or it's over.

Do you guys really go for the hug at the beginning of the date? With someone you've just met, who, maybe, you'd had a short phone convo or two with? Seems totally awkward. I never do that. I only go for the hug at the end *IF* I felt we connected.

Answering these questions might help us out.
This is actually the impression I got from you based on your profile and posts. I also believe you probably present yourself on your dates the same way you do in your profile. If this is true, then you're biggest problem is finding a woman that's compatible with you. Either that, or work on your dating game. Also, you probably have a lot of great qualities that many people might find interesting, but you didn't really focus on the strong points that would make you appealing to others.
Look for a girl that is very outgoing, no nonsense, and enthusiastic. I think you have the most to offer with this type. You'll want someone who can and enjoys directing the conversation, but also is eager for your input. Offering insight is probably what you do best.


I had typed a lot more, but it somehow got deleted. I'll try to come back to this later.