TBH, I don't really get where your taking this from. There's quite the difference in what's being said and what's being thought. I think most TRs are actually pretty good and 'real', I havn't read the word 'neg' in a while either and sava/el d/dalerob have a pretty sober view and kill any kind of PUA'ish talk that gets in here (which is a good thing) as far as I noticed.

edit- I agree with Garcia, it can be weird if you meet that late and I think a short 'do you feel like eating something' or whatever wouldn't be that odd from her part.

I forget the movie, but there's a great quote about how girls like confident guys because they take what they want, and hate insecure guys because they make them feel like they're stealing. NEWSFLASH: She knows you're trying to have sex with her. But you're doing your best to convince her that you don't deserve it and aren't used to having success with women.

This is the third date between you right? First one she wouldn't have sex with you and wet the bed with you in it, so you invited her over to your place to continue spooning. Then 2nd date you met her at her gym during her workout. Now she wouldn't come to your place, so you go to hers and she puts you in the kiddie sofa while she sits above you. Your response to this progression is to ask her if she wants to cuddle.

The idea that the sofa/chair arrangement made it hard to escalate is bull****. Take charge of the situation. Tell her the sofa sucks. Stand up. Tell her to come over to you. Kiss her. Have sex with her. That's what confident guys do. Or at least let her know that you're used to a normal progression of having girls desire you and this is moving slower than you're used to. (Because it IS moving slower than what you would be used to if you were successful with women.) She must be wondering why you haven't gotten frustrated and taken charge of the situation yet. Hmm.. it must be because he's not used to getting girls. *Social value plummets)

*edit- just to clarify, by "let her know that you're used to a normal progression of having girls desire you" I mean with your actions, not your words.

Don't sweat it. I've been in that mental state too. Maybe it's just my unique experience but online dating seems to be feast or famine.

Agree, lay off the compliments until you've already stuck it in. I've noticed that early in the process compliments don't go over very well with women secure about themselves / their appearance.

Always easier said than done, but this is spot on. Approaching the interaction like you're doing them a favor and that they'd be lucky if you determine that they're attractive / cool enough to bang is a huge psychological advantage.

I completely realize the absurdity of going from my substance abuse therapist to having a drink with a relatively random internet girl. She knew I was in a "meeting" before hanging out and asked what I was doing (I think she thought I was on another date). I told her the truth. It's part of my new I don't give a **** / I don't have time to over think crap approach to dating.

This is hilarious and the whole image of bobbo struggling in the kiddie chair underneath the girl like some reprimanded child cracked me up. With the cuddling request too this metaphor is just too perfect.

LOOLLLLLL YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME

I've been missing you Sandra, WB <:

It might not even be anything you did. If I wet some guy's bed I'd feel a concoction of shame, embarrassment, and need for acceptance. I'd probably see him again to redeem myself in some small way, and then that would be it. Mostly because I would struggle to ever reconcile the shame of it all and wouldn't want to be reminded of it. Think about it, we even refer to her as 'bedwetting girl'

It's possible even laying in the bed together was a reminder. She may have a serious problem and not even want you to stay over for fear of another accident. It's easy to assume it was a one time thing, but it usually isn't.

lulz

did the boob rub get replaced by the leg-rub-cuddle?

only time will tell

Yea. This. I ended up eating a second dinner because of that. I felt like it would have been far less acceptable for me to say i had already had dinner and declined than to just eat again and suck it up so i did the latter. I also knew it wasn't a girl I was interested in within the first 10 min tops and this was guaranteed to add 30-60 min to the date depending on how much we talked afterwards.

If I hadn't eaten then I would have wanted food and would have been glad she was hungry.


El d,

I live in atl. Late dinner would be within the norm for a weekend but I think it's less than expected on a tue.


Also didn't want this to change discussion of the question above but she said at some point early on that "my mother was jealous and wants me to bring her a piece of cake" which was a huge turnoff since she's 25 and apparently lives at home and tells her mom where she is going on dates but then also thinks that's normal to bring up. When we got two pieces of cake at the counter for her "mother" (for some reason this word tilts me when used repeatedly) she and the girl at the counter looked at me for 2-3 seconds after she was told it was "16.xx" and then she kinda sighed and opened her purse to get a credit card. I am all for paying for early dates (and did) but I thought this was a little out of line also but by then I knew I wouldn't be seeing her again.

Wait, she expected you to pay for the piece of cake for her mother? Lol.

Lol that's pretty funny.

Anyways, PM'd you earlier on Jenny if you wouldn't mind giving some feedback. Never done this before so probably a bit of a trainwreck haha

it seemed like it. not sure if even henry advocates that. I obviously didn't and just waited quietly and then walked her to her car before giving her a hug and getting out of there.

jenni, I also pm'd you a week or so ago if you don't mind taking a look.

Jenni is swamped, I PMed her as well =D I feel like we should return the favor in some way without making you feel cheap ... suggestions ?

Garcia was doing an over-worked joke, as per usual, he doesn't actually think I have reading comprehension issues.

You honestly think it would have been far less acceptable to sit there quietly enjoying a short laugh and drink with someone you may not be attracted to than to sit there fuming because her unmentioned religion, accent and hunger levels were not exactly what you assumed? Your attitude is exactly what I have a problem with.

You'd think 2+2 would be populated with slightly more sensitive/tuned in people because of the rationality factor but instead it just leads to dullard dudes that are 6s acting as if they're 9s (which is ironically what most of us accuse online girls of doing) with an obscure and arbitrary list of demands despite a boring, ****ty attitude.

For the record the cake thing was her offering you an opening to show interest, not some ridiculous girlie demand. Much like Tyler on his threesome date, there's ways to make it obvious that you're not paying for interlopers without coming across like a dick or a doormat.

The cake thing has nothing to do with interest and everything to do with walking all over him.

Seriously wtf.

There are other ways of bringing up your family to gauge if someone is interested rather than asking to buy them cake

She sounds like a boring southern baptist type - she lives with her mom and has lively never walked over anyone. She talked about her first date to her mother (which should immediately tell you how dorky, traditional, and non-manipulative she probably is) her mom said a lame joke in passing, and this girl took it as a chance to see if he'd do something "nice" for his date (gauge his interest). She was not trying to exploit 6 dollars of cake out of him.

1. I wasn't fuming. When I said pissed off I meant just that. That it caught me off guard and I didn't like it. I was talking again and hadn't changed my demeanor by the time the waiter left the table.

2. The accent thing was just a personal preference. Its not even southern accents in general, but the particular brand that she had. It is a very small subsect of girls who have accents that would bother me and never a dealbreaker.

3. Religion isn't a dealbreaker for me like it is for many, but it caught me offguard since most really religious types are quick to point out that they are religious and care about it deeply. I am pretty open to dating people of any religion as long as they don't force it into my daily life. I will even go to church, temple, synagogue, etc. with someone I am dating from time to time if that makes them happy.

4. lol at the cake thing being anything but very awkward at best and completely rude at worst.

I agree completely. This thread is strange. You guys need to act like yourselves and have fun. Getting girls is so simple.

Thanks for this great insight guys, this has indeed worked for every male on the earth, TTHRIC IMO.

Wait how are we naive? Women like confidence. They don't like guys who sit around and worry about minutiae, like most of the guys in this thread do.

Act intentionally and purposely, with confidence. Realize not everyone will like you, and that's ok. It really is quite simple. More importantly, be yourself.

Cdl,

Since you're already not having fun, I don't see any reason for you not to say you already had dinner and put an end to the date. If you really want, you can say it in a way where you still leave the door open for her to order if she still wants to order something.

He shouldn't have to do anything he doesn't want to imo, but that's just me.

Also I think it was 16 dollars, and it seemed more of a purchase after he already paid for the dinner. I think her ordering food wasn't so much a terrible thing, it was probably more her really enjoying OP and wanting to turn it into an actual date outside of just drinks. If OP did plan on seeing her again I'd recommend buying her the dumb cakes. Girlie only wants me for my cake.

meh, this was only maybe 20 min into the date and though I could tell I wasn't going to be interested I would have felt that it was douchey to do this. I just thought it was clear that it wasn't a dinner date and ended up feeling overfull.

this is true it's just not helpful to hear if things arent working for you. dating really isn't as simple as just "be yourself", especially for people who are new to the online part of it all. each situation is different, each girl is different, etc. and its helpful to at least talk some it through.