Optimal hot woman dating strategy seems to be to act aloof but friendly and give guys a rope to hang themselves. The handful that don't, you take to the next level.

you all know ATF is a gimmick account, right?

That's what I've thought for awhile. Ever since he said he got bitten on a date.

I think this post was one edit short of what you actually wanted to say.

But does that mean this isn't all actually happening to him?

No idea because I've never read a single post by him. Are they any good?

i stopped reading a long time ago, i just noticed a lot of people quoting him lately

Anyone who puts this much work into posting fake transcripts deserves to have fish take the bait imo.
Nice try, but your secret fantasies of being topped by me will have to remain fantasies.

lol i just looked at his reg date. ive read zero posts but if he's posted in the are you good looking thread I'll eat my hat if he isn't bonafiedcreep

Pretty sure he's only posted here

Not a gimmick guys, though at the moment I kinda wish I was one lol. I've been on 2+2 since '04; this thread inspired me to try online dating. It's also served to demonstrate that I have a lot to learn. I appreciate the feedback, it helps. Maybe I'll post my follow up text to the girl with whom I thought we clicked. After digesting what was said about the transcript I did post, pretty confident that my follow up text killed any shot I had for a 2nd date. ****!

When a woman admits to being on a dating site for a few years but says she has only gone out on a dozen dates, however the process to meeting up with her is extremely swift... she's obv lying, correct?

The women I've dated are CLEARLY trying to catch me in lies on that first date. They spend most of their time trying to weed out the married guys and the two-timers.

I think all the other analysis of your exchange, while almost certainly valid, is superfluous: she caught you lying about your drinking habits, she tuned out at that exact moment.

Best advice I got from that book I keep plugging: LYING IS TOO MUCH WORK. You don't need to, so why give yourself something to trip over?

I remember one of my first "first dates" after my divorce, I told some incredibly inconsequential lie. Can't recall now what it was, I think it may have been claiming to have a job, when in reality, I couldn't actually start the job until my background check cleared, which would take a few weeks, and rather than explain all that, I just said I had the job (it really was a formality, I *did* pass the check and get the job). And when I tripped over it later, the smile fell from her face, the body language changed completely, and it was all over but the shouting.

Ytf,

"The women I've dated are CLEARLY trying to catch me in lies on that first date. They spend most of their time trying to weed out the married guys and the two-timers."

This seems really, really weird to me.

YTF, your dating life sounds hilarious and should be taped. I would pay to watch a hidden camera show of your dates.

I dusted off my old Match profile, updated the pics, and immediately got the hard sell to send them money to get back in the game quickly. But I'm going to busy for a couple of weeks, so I put it off.

It only took a day to get the email that said, "Some girl is into you! She clicked "LIKE"! She sent you an email!" Other notifications of Winks came in, so I signed up for three months (which doesn't cost very much more than to sign up for one month, the smallest commitment they'll take).

Of course, the girl who wrote to me lives 100 miles away. LOL me.

But I'm getting Winks and Likes from all directions this past weekend, and from women in my general geographical area. It will be interesting to see how differently the game is played in *this* ballpark.

But be warned about Match, if you haven't stepped into their trap once already: Three months from now, they are going to auto-renew my subscription for another three months, and bill my card another $57, if I don't remember to cancel my membership before that date (and of course I'm not going to remember!). And when I contact them to try to get any of that money back, they're going to tell me to kiss off. Before anyone here sends them one dollar, they should be aware of this gimmick.

I've been doing this a few years, I haven't been on a dozen dates yet. It's not a fulltime pursuit for all of us. And a couple of those girls had me "off the market" for huge chunks of time.

So I joined Match. For those of you that are members there, how many winks and
"I'm interested" do you get?

I've had 46 winks since joined on April 7. By 'who's interested' if you mean how many have favourited me then 9.

Just been first-messaged by someone who isn't a gargoyle! I might play the female role and be a little aloof, see what happens. Most likely she gets bored and takes her business elsewhere.

Does anyone have any advice? I am 6'1 but skinny (170 lb). I have a naturally slim, long frame and find it hard to put on weight even though I love food and eat a lot. When I'm going through times of eating the most and drinking beer I put on a little weight but it is mostly just stomach flab.

Any tips on looking a bit beefier? I feel like if I were to hit the gym and get more toned it wouldn't really affect my overall appearance frame-wise. Would it be easier to look bulkier if I just went crazy with carbohydrates, put on fat then try and sculpt the fat into more muscle? I already eat 8 slices of bread for my lunchtime sandwich lol.

I feel I am naturally confident with girls but with summer coming up I'm conscious of being slim and not being able to pad myself out with several layers and thick cardigans.

Dude post that stuff in health and fitness please. The short and curt answer is everything you think is wrong :O

Do you have any experience working out? If not, http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/85...u-post-176665/ is a really good place to start. If you're trying to gain weight alongside working out, drinking a gallon of milk a day is a plausible strategy.

No problem, I appreciate it; no criticism is too harsh if it's intention is constructive. Good point on the negative expression and eagerness. I definitely think I come off as too eager, in text format and often on the date. I think I'm overcompensating for acting aloof toward even innocent flirting for soooo long on account of being loyally married.

You nailed it right from the opening paragraph. I used to qualify it as social anxiety, it's really insecurity. And I'm definitely trying too hard.

Now this I don't necessarily agree with. I've had more than a few online woman hint or outright ask for a phone call. The one in the transcript made sure to mention that she likes talking on the phone. One from earlier in the week said, had I called, she would have appreciated it. Don't get me wrong though, I do realize that a phone call is fraught with risk.

This was a two message deal and meet. On the date she admitted to being an old pro to online but also said she'd only been out with a dozen or so online dudes. That and I've had her on my "favorites" for like 2 months and she's online every day, multiple times a day. As a relative attractive female, there's an inconsistency in there somewhere. If the woman is signalling interest but shutting down everything past a kiss... which, in my short experience, means she's putting me in a boyfriend zone... the dishonesty is a deal breaker; especially because I'm incredibly honest, probably to a fault.

It certainly could be the lie. I was actually going to try to pull off not drinking if we met up. It was discussed here last week I believe and a few guys said it'd be no problem to ask a girl for a drink and then order a coke or whatever. I thought the behavior to be questionable but I brought it up with a date - "if I suggested we get drinks and order a club soda, would that have seemed creepy or strange" - and she said it would have been fine.

I went off drinking for a couple of years and just ordered cokes or pineapple juice at a bar or date. I've ordered all kinds of weird stuff. Most women were interested rather than finding it unusual; if 20 guys before you order a Heineken and you get something very different, that's not a bad thing. All I ever noticed is that it sometimes make them feel a bit conscious of their own drinking which was good in a dating sense because they start off on the back foot.

Also,
Consider not asking people what's socially appropriate. You never know if they're lying or unusual anyway. The best way to learn social boundaries is to do unusual things and see how people react; you'll be amazed what you can get away with and how unobservant or self interested people are. That point of realization is when you start having fun and taking control of your dating experience and becoming genuinely good with women.

It's a byproduct of being insecure and inexperienced I suppose. That and I'm naturally inquisitive and self-centered lol. While I can appreciate the pitfalls, some women seem genuinely flattered that I'm asking for their opinion on the matter. That said, I'm getting bolder with each experience and seeing the fun / value in just doing and saying whatever I want. Took me a while to figure out that, from their vantage point, the women are just along for the ride.

I can pass some experience along. I've had online conversations with a lawyer (biter), a PhD student (girl from transcript), and - at the moment - a writer. Without exception, these women have loved my long, witty messages and reply in kind. They've all expressed excitement at the prospect of going out with me as well. The point being, there's a brand of female - older students and those whose careers involve writing? - that long for the well-written, comprehensive communication. Provide that and securing a date (ex-****ing up thru texting lol) is all but guaranteed.

Don't expect a woman you just met to be honest when the truth is embarrassing to her and she will be judged harshly on it. That's not her fault. It's yours for asking. No woman is going to say "I've been on 57 dates. Yes, I'm a bit of an indiscriminate slut that can't hold onto a man." If a girl tells you she's slept with 10 guys, it usually means 30. This is universal. It's none of your business how many dates she's been on and she doesn't want you to think she gets around. She's stretching the truth to protect herself from an awkward situation. That doesn't mean she's going to lie about the important stuff in a relationship or cheat on you. EVERYBODY lies about stuff like this, even you.

I think it's fine to say "So have you met many cool people from the dating site?" but not fine to ask "How many dates have you been on?" Not sure how the conversation went, but once again I think you are focusing on the wrong things. If you throw this one back for not admitting to being on as many dates as you have determined she must have been on, it's pretty ridiculous.