I forget if I brought this up before, but do people really say 'broad' still when referring to a woman?

Broad, dame... I use both, affectionately.

girl just first-texted me asking about my night out yesterday, think it's from an IM convo I had yesterday but I can't remember her name and she didn't say in the text.

What's my play? I could say I don't recognise the number but then she'll just think I totally forgot our conversation (I kinda did)

*Meh, I ended up just saying don't recognise the number.

Holy **** I'm attracting some serious flakes. Last night I sent a text to some woman I've been going back and forth with for a while. She responded that Sunday late afternoon would work. We sent a few additional texts after that but she never responded to my last one. I fired off another earlier today asking if she was still up for this evening and... nothing. WTF, these are 30+ year old women; am I totally off-base to think that this type of behavior is marginally acceptable from teens / early-twenties girls???

Most women are flakey. Just because they are older, it doesn't mean that they aren't weird or flakey. Same with older man-children.

You take the good with the bad.

You could post the transcript here, maybe you're saying something to scare them off. And you can take comfort knowing that even if you are, it won't be nearly as embarrassing as ytf's post.

How terrible is it to nerd out over a book that a girl lists prominently enough in her profile to be inviting discussion over it? She seems like the intellectual type, but is a 3 paragraph opener about a book going to kill the possibility of romance? I sent it anyway, will report back with results.

I've done it before. It's never been a good idea.

That long of an opening message will probably come off as desperate and is usually a waste of time. If she responds, she probably would have responded to a short one anyway. I think it's a lot better after you've exchanged a few short ones.

What book is it?

Having a ton more luck recently. Could just be variance, but made some of the typical adjustments. I got more disciplined in terms of deleting a couple pictures I like a lot but probably aren't my best, and sucked up my pride and asked a friend to take some "candid" pictures of me and her puppy. Made the best one my main. Easy game.

Also deleted a couple very light self-effacing lines from my profile. My sense of humor is very self-depricating and the rest of my profile was extremely positive/confident, but I think regardless it's just not going to come across the right way in that setting even if it's light.

Also stopped browsing invisibly, was too concerned about clicking a profile really frequently and looking weird or w/e, obv a bad way to think about it.

I've had average results with a quick question that asks her to talk about what she thinks about some aspect of her favorite book. I've had poor results launching into into paragraphs about my own pet theory.

This girl and I were trying to set up a date, when she mentions her apartment is a good spot.

run

Okay. I should note that we've been going back and forth for a while so there's a lot here that may look cringe-worthy but actually has relevance to previous convos. Then again, that I felt the need to explain it might be a warning sign in and of itself.


On second glace I noticed that she never committed to Sunday. It was implied though by the drinking discussion?

Since there's nothing to lose, I called her around 6 this evening and it went to voicemail. Oh well.

I go if only because it's likely to be so weird that it'll be awesome.

This. It's taken me a while to figure out but long messages tend to beget more long messages. Next thing you know they're expecting a novel for a response, making the pivot to shorter messages, or text, run the risk of appearing curt. That said, getting them invested in the messages guarantees a meeting.

Not exactly this since I enjoyed writing it whether she responds to it or not. It was a nice break from the typical openers I had been sending. But it looks unanimous that it was a bad way to score a date so I'll assume I won't be hearing back and find some other way to entertain myself next time.

lol you got played. If this is a first date you could maybe use a line about how you think it would be awkward and you'd feel better with a one on one meeting (at a public venue obv) and get her to reschedule. If you go to her apartment after that, there's no way it ends well for you. She will know she played you.

Doesn't look like she even implied she wanted to get a drink. After she said "I don't want to pressure you," you never convinced her that she wasn't pressuring you, which should imply she's still in the "I don't want to" mode. FWIW even if you had tried to convince her it wouldn't have worked. If you're going to say you don't drink, stick to that. You're going to make yourself look weak-willed and make the girl feel awkward otherwise.

Also don't ever make reference to the fact that she might possibly reject you. You did that twice. It shows a lack of self confidence.

Also stop calling.

She was joking with you so you obviously managed to build good rapport. I don't think you're too far off from being successful.

I didn't like this part where you say that you over-think things.

I liked this part. But she said it, not you

Overall, she doesn't actually seem interested. It sounds to me that she's bored and just responding because you contacted her anyway even when she tried to not respond.

I was a girl, I'd date you.

However, your texts come across like you focus on yourself a lot and are used to rejection. You also come across as eager. Excited/interest it ok, but not eager, especially when combined with a general heaviness/negativity. For example:

This is too heavy and betrays your eagerness to see her. Despite that it's non specific about time, which makes going out tomorrow seem like a consolation prize. Not a good way to get her excited or look forward to seeing you. This would be better:

Her: I have a going away party tonight. Free before that or tomorrow late afternoon.
Me: I'd love to take you to Chili's for a drink tomorrow, say 5pm? We can talk about <something funny or absurd she or you are doing>

This is full of positive emotion and shows that you can focus on her. There isn't a person in the world that doesn't like being flattered with attention if they have any interest in seeing you. It's also specific and ties her down to yes/no rather wishy washy validation of her desire to see you.

Next one:

This is just dripping in negativity. Here's the subtext. "Yes I lied for a reason and I'm ok with that. But I mostly didn't and I drink when I'm nervous - did I mention we're still not comfortable together? Am I rejected now because of my lie? Please validate me."
Then she deftly validates you while deflecting your neediness with an attempt at humor, giving you another chance:
Women are skilled at doing this and they deserve kudos for it. To which you respond in turn:
Which is ok - it mirrors her feelings although again the attention is on you. To which she responds with a request for attention to normalize your relationship again:
Here she wants validation of how she just saved the situation. To which you respond with a negative sentiment with weird undertones:
This is a rejection of her validation request. At this point she's emotionally retreated from the conversation. You're playing her game like an amateur.

The situation is still very salvageable here, but you respond with more negativity and self interest:
You need to understand that even something negative done in humor is still negative. Self effacing humor is harder to do than you think. The trouble with negativity, even in humor, is that a person has to generate negative emotions to understand negative words. It's a big ask to do this right, and it's far easier to just be positive. People who are positive and confident don't even have these thoughts so they can't make humor about them, so even in humor self effacing humor betrays flaws. Some women like that because it makes them feel safe/mothering, but even those girls respond more strongly to positive humor/attitudes.

Anyway don't take this the wrong way - most people don't get their texts picked apart and micro analyzed. I just want to let you know what you're doing that's less than optimal and how you can improve it. A greater focus on positivity, upfront expression of your excitement rather than negative expression of your eagerness, are the way you need to go.

ATF- Glad you posted that. If you're ready for the tough love, you can learn a lot from it. This is a good example of an insecure guy trying too hard instead of just being natural. My thoughts in red:

ME: Hmm you went dark on me. Are you still breathing? Worried you're getting blown off

HER: Im still breathing. Was I gone that long?
letting you know that taking time to respond is normal and you jumped the gun. A signal that you need to be more aloof.

Good question, I don't know. I tend to overthink everything . Are you free this evening? You point out a flaw in yourself, and not in a humorous way. Overthinking is not an attractive quality and you show your insecurity by bringing it up.

I have a going away party tonight. Free before that or tomorrow late afternoon.

Bummer. Hanging w my kid til 8. Maybe grab a drink tomorrow?

You don't drink This is how you come off as aloof. 3 words. Straight to the point. Not even a period at the end.

That's right I said that, for a reason. I rarely drink but think its ok for an ice breaker. Maybe now it's a deal breaker? Now you are suggesting that one of your qualities might be a dealbreaker for her. More insecurity. Also you're murdering the English language with that first sentence.

No its not, but I don't want to pressure you. I saw an after school special about that. LOL. This girl is good.

Thank you. I feel better now knowing you wont try to get me drunk and have your way with me. Not a bad line, but you could probably say the same thing in fewer words:
Good. I feel better knowing you won't get me drunk and have your way with me. Just a little cleaner and easier to read. Subtle difference, but words are your only tool right now, so show her you know how to use them. There might be an even better way to phrase it..

I'm a gentleman. Or gentlewoman. Another good line from her. Concise, funny, natural..

Had I not spoken to you on the phone previously the first sentence would be disconcerting. (: This is a conversation stopper and doesn't "advance the story". I think you're trying too hard to be witty. Try and think of interesting and funny ways to say the things you want and need to say to her. For example, she wanted to tell you that she didn't want to pressure you about drinking and she used the after school special line to make it hilarious. Here you aren't moving the conversation along. You're just trying to be funny and I think she got bored with it.

[...and then today...]

Normally I get a concrete 'sure sunday works' or 'bug off creep'. You though... are we still good for tonight? Still worried you're getting blown off. I understand you need to get confirmation of your plans, but if you think you're getting blown off don't try and be funny about it. At that point I think you just need to ask her directly if she wants to hang out, and then accept your medicine.

Hope I wasn't too hard on you, but I think it's stuff you needed to hear. GL with the next one.

LOL simultaneous critiques. Good point about the word bummer. I missed that one.

Sly,

Overall good feedback from you and the others to ATF, but FYI I think she is the one who wrote "you don't drink."

Diablo,

Sly "murdered the English language" on that one He got it correct but he should have said "one" instead of "you" for clarity. Of course, doing that makes you sound like a douche, so we all have to live with the ambiguity.

Yeah, I meant that he should learn from her example on how to come off as aloof.

Overall, I think her messages are a great example of how to attract someone through conversation. I want to meet this girl and I haven't even seen her picture.

That after school special line is really good. You can do so much with that.

I'll throw my hat in for "Well, I guess we can rule 'me being taken advantage of' out of first date outcomes"