She had a bunch of really bull**** house rules though. Which I overreacted to, but that was ok because she thought it was funny.

btw, In case some of you haven't figured it out already, when a girl fires the preemptive "I'm not a slut" strike (See YTF's exchange) by telling you that you won't be having sex, that is a good sign that you will be having sex. If they really don't plan on having sex, there is no need to say that. I've found that to be a reliable indicator. Note that this does not apply to internet profiles where they are really trying to weed out guys just looking for sex.

I could see why you would make this guess given what she said, plus the fact that I seem to be getting quickly spooked. I would still guess it's just a standard thing for her to say. I could be oblivious to something else, but we talked sex earlier in the date and I even brought up slut shaming as bull****, and everything after was super positive, so I don't think I gave off any extra bad vibes. But who knows.

The main thing about women is: don't take them at face value. They never say what they mean. They'll spout some neurotic stuff and then sort it out and backtrack later. Don't overreact to things that look rushed/panicked. Just be calm and don't overthink things. You're a guy, sack up and stop being a bitch with all of this "thinking and feelings" talk.

Thinking and feelings kick ass. You're missing out, bro.

Teehee.
Last sentence was laced with sarcasm, rest wasn't.

Lol girls always say that after hooking up with me. Thought it was a chick thing.

I need to quit reading this thread. It's causing a crisis in confidence, an area where I had no trouble just a week ago.

What does it mean if they send a message in all caps that says "WE ARE NOT HAVING SEX TONIGHT"?

Most of the guys in this thread are going after different women. I think your general approach for your demographic (women in their 40s) isn't that bad, you just need some fine tuning. At least you aren't boring, which is prob where 90% of online daters fall.

You said you've hooked up with a couple women and had this last girl completely throwing herself at you before you'd even met in person so obviously you're doing some things well.

is this the place to talk about fingering?

go for it

Even if 95%+ of people who say this actually do want to hook up, I still think it's better to take it at face value, and pause to have a very explicit consent conversation pre-hookup if she does pursue it. Especially if there's some alcohol involved, and if there's a lot I don't care how much she wants it, what she said before is going to get taken at face value.

Probably way too nitty in vast majority of cases, but I can't see how anything else would be a good policy.

I hate to use a poker analogy, but this thread is exposing some leaks in your game. Fixing leaks is the easiest thing to do. It's finding them that's the hard part. If you are open-minded about what you have been doing wrong, then you will be able to grow from it and become MORE confident because of the advice in this thread. That woman was clearly into you.

The first thing you need to do is admit that you made some pretty obvious mistakes that caused you to fail and learn from them so you don't make them again.

Here are some rules for you to follow:
1. Be artful in your messages. Next time you write a 50 word reply, ask yourself if you could say it in 10. It's not what you say. It's how you say it.

2. Be confident in your messages. Never talk about your insecurities. It's a big red flag for women and shows you lack confidence.

3. Never EVER talk about your feelings with a woman you haven't even been with yet. Again, big red flag that you are willing to give yourself away so easily. Nothing good can ever come from it.

4. Don't be vulgar. Never use terms like pussy or rubbing one out unless they use them first.

5. LISTEN. To women AND to the advice in this thread.

6. Post the next one to continue the learning process.

You're going to kill the mood if you do that. If she wants to have sex, then have sex.

Don't take what I said the wrong way. Just because a woman says "we're not going to have sex tonight" doesn't mean you should tell her you've refrained from masturbating so you can be ready. I'm just saying that it's a pretty good indicator. It shouldn't change how you act on the date at all. What they are really saying is: "I need you to know that when we have sex tonight, it's because I feel a special connection with you and the moment will just happen to be right, because I don't normally have sex with someone that soon."

Youtalkfunny writing in his message that he was 'rubbing one out' made me lol too much!

Re: DC/Clarendon

No way I'd take someone to Whitlows for a date unless she was like 21 and wanted a college bar. Only redeeming quality of that place is that it's cheap and it has the rooftop if the weather is nice. The setup inside is not conducive to dates and it's always crazy crowded.

Spider Kelly's is better, at least there are things to do there (pool, darts, skee ball, other games) and the actual decor itself is better. If you get there early enough you could grab one of the lounge tables which would be nice. Again gets very crowded though less fresh out of college atmosphere than Whitlows.

If I had to pick a spot for drinks I'd go to Circa. The people who go there are definitely young professionals and it's usually much more intimate and quiet.

Another option is Eventide. They also have a rooftop and it's probably one of the classier places in Clarendon. Prices are gonna be a little higher here but it would be a nice spot for a date.


For more DC I'd definitely aim to take dates to Georgetown. Every option gonna be pretty solid. As wvu said the museums are nice too and you could eat at a food truck or people watch.

Would avoid dupont circle or Adams Morgan with dates at all costs unless you just want to drink a lot and party.

Awesome thread. YTF keep your head up, you are doing somethings right.

I'm just a white guy on a black dating site.

Let's deflect this into another direction: I work nights and weekends, and THAT has been my biggest obstacle to overcome, even more than roommates, crappy car, and TMI.

Any advice? The search options on POF and OKC don't seem to help much, and if you told me that Match had a way to filter girls who work nights, I'd break out the wallet.

(I've tried doing searches for nurses, or hospitality workers--didn't help much. They've got dating sites for Christians, ethnic groups, I've even seen ads out here in the midwest for a dating site for FARMERS! Maybe one of you young computer geniuses can start up a site for us swing shifters?)

The rooftop at Whitlow's is actually really good if you can get a table- otherwise, I agree about the rest of the bar.

Clarendon Rooftop Bar is another place that I forgot to mention that's really good (albeit too crowded sometimes).

DC meetup? We can compare and see if we've gone out with any of the same girls

The irony is that it's exactly this approach (i.e. shirking away from honest assessment because it hurts) is the doomsday pattern that got you to where you are today. I say that because it bears similarity to the strategy you adopted at the beginning of your weight loss thread.

Maybe you'll find Mark Manson's words useful

ytf,

"THAT has been my biggest obstacle to overcome"

How many women have wanted to get together with you where this has been the obstacle preventing that?

What hours are you available to hang out during the weekend?

I've done the quick check-in, it doesn't have to kill the mood. Can often enhance it because now she's talking about what she wants. But I get your point.

I'm always down for 2p2 meetups. We had a really good one in DC about 5 years ago. I haven't been on any DC dates yet though. I have my first scheduled for Wednesday.

Speaking of that one I asked the girl which area was convenient for her (Logan Circle) and quickly checked google/yelp for the first spot I could find there with good reviews (Churchkey). Upon further review it looks like that place will be packed even on a weekday evening and also it may be super hipster which is not really my thing. Can anyone confirm/deny? Also good places to venue change nearby?

I've been to Churchkey a few times, but only on the weekends, and never for a date. They have lots of good beers. It can get pretty crowded. Depending on the weather, there's a smaller outside patio that you can go out on. The inside bar is pretty small and there isn't that much space to sit down. The bar itself is really good, but I'm not sure if it's ideal for a first date when you want to be able to hear/have some privacy.

I'd probably recommend somewhere else- you're not too far from Dupont, just go there?

So I set up a date with a new stripper for Wednesday