You didn’t read the article did you.

Well, you could have worded it better....

But there are two issues here, conscious and unconscious. The first is whether she will consciously exclude or embellish certain aspects to make her story more believable and to present herself in a more favourable light. Remember, a lot of people will know who she is (work colleagues, friends, etc), and she want to present herself favourably. It's highly likely she consciously did this.

The second is whether she unconsciously remembers things differently to how they happened. Again, research suggests this is highly likely to have happened when she recounted her story.

So the end result is if Aziz had CCTV footage of the evening, it would probably present a very different story to the once she recounted.

Basically this was the take of the noted conservative publication The National Review.

This is correct. The ones who want to debate of her story is accurate come across as doing so to avoid acknowledging that if true, what he did was unacceptable.

This article sucks. Among other issues I have with it is the way she asserts "women of the last generation were told to say no when they didn't want sex". I'm pretty sure that's not the way things worked; rather, women were told they should say no regardless of whether they wanted sex, and that if they wanted sex they were undesirable whores.

In fact, in 2018 framing the ideal male/female interaction as "guy pushes hard for sex, it's the girls duty to resist" is so far beyond the pale that I can't believe the Atlantic published this **** article, or that I just had to write this post trashing it.

I think pretty much everyone agrees the Atlantic article is trash

Who has claimed his behaviour as reported was in any way acceptable?

It's true that if he was aware she wasn't consenting that what he did was wrong. Don't think anyone disagrees there.

The disagreement seems to be if her willingly blowing him was consensual or not.

Yes I did. She willingly sucked his dick. Sometime after this she decided she's made a mistake, rejected his subsequent advances and left. Regret does not equal sexual assault.

In my defense I didn't realize how ponied I was until after I made that post. Tapatalk was ****ed for me and wasn't loading the last 12 posts in the thread. My apologies

Here is the order of events:

1. “He said something along the lines of, ‘How about you hop up and take a seat?’” Within moments, he was kissing her.
2. “In a second, his hand was on my breast.”
3. Then he was undressing her, then he undressed himself.
4. When Ansari told her he was going to grab a condom within minutes of their first kiss, Grace voiced her hesitation explicitly. “I said something like, ‘Whoa, let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill.’”
5. She says he then resumed kissing her, briefly performed oral sex on her
6. And asked her to do the same thing to him. She did, but not for long.

So #6 counts are her consenting to #5, even though in #4 she said, "‘Whoa, let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill"?

I think it's a nuanced situation that none of us were present for. Seemed to me when he realized she was uncomfortable he facilitated a ride home. He could have misinterpreted "let's relax for a sec".

Lol he realized she was uncomfortable and she didn’t want to do anything and he still took several more very pushy creepy aggressive bites at that apple til he basically had no choice but to let her go or “rape rape” her.

I'm guessing he doesn't often get much more than token resistance from his groupies and he obviously doesn't react very well to it as he got rapey pretty fast. Or maybe it does happen far too often and noone else mentioned it. He needs to retire the fingers in the girl's mouth move permanently.

Oh yeah that was really weird.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.590dc6bd4776

I disagree with that op-ed piece by a guy who is executive editor of a conservative political journalism web site. This is great for #metoo because Sure it's bad in that it gives defensive men a chance to cry how unfair the accusations are try to discredit #metoo, but #metoo shouldn't be just about pointing fingers at scumbags and calling them scumbags, but about getting people to consider their own behaviour and how it may be contributing to the problem, and stories like Aziz's encourage men acting in good-faith to do this.

Your post was fine, I didn't mean that to cut off discussion. I had heard a few criticisms of that article from different angles and I thought it was garbage myself when I read it so it was more of an observation.

The white wine/red wine should have been cut but it's standard for people to recall and recount minor details which telling a traumatic/memorable story.

Perhaps she didn't recall the evening all too correctly and Ansari is a total gentleman. In which case this will all blow over in time. Or perhaps he does this kind of thing all the time. And more women will come forward with similar experiences.

I don't get the argument that because he was, as described, way less of a predator than Harvey Weinstein, the story isn't worth sharing.

i know i often find myself in situations where i'm a world famous comedian with models coming over to my nyc penthouse for drinks.

So clever

another article:

Aziz Ansari Is Guilty. Of Not Being a Mind Reader.

Another click-bait piece by a right-wing columnist seeking librul tears https://theintercept.com/2017/08/31/...int-diversity/

gregorio,

in the last 40 posts three articles have been linked. you have dismissed each one in turn as being written by:

- an old
- the executive editor of a conservative political journalism web site
- a right-wing columnist

i would recommend focusing more on the content of the articles instead of frantically researching the authors. i'm in an extremely liberal group chat with other 2p2ers and we are all in agreement that there are some excellent points made in these pieces.

The Washington Post and the New Yorker are not known for being reactionary conservative.

...

Oops, I meant The Atlantic, not the New Yorker. But it is also not known for being conervative.