Or he could be massively overreacting because she's not placing his dream of spending Christmas together over her own dream and he needs to learn that people can still be in mature relationships even if their desires clash sometines and someone has to make a sacrifice. Maybe it's a case of lolwomen, but maybe he's being a whiney little baby, or maybe it's a bit of both.

Mature relationships don't usually omit the other party bc they have a fairy tale in their head.

Her indifference to him caring about their family unit is a ldo bad omen.

They also don't patronize their partners dreams by calling them fairy tales in their head.

it sounds like op just values christmas as family time more than she does. it doesn't seem that strange that someone doesn't care as much. would this have been as big a deal if it was over the summer? christmas in paris sounds like it could be cool and i assume the daughter has time off school as well.

as for the credit card thing I would think its more odd if a woman didn't think that way

Him wanting to spend Christmas with them shouldn't constitute a dream and is a pretty lol equivalence to her "dream."

Gregario,

This is why I'm uncertain
. But as dodger said, I feel like this is really wierd too. I mean I've completely reorganized my life. I spend a good part of my afternoon waiting in line at school and then running around doing dance. That's what you do for your family. I just feel like something is off with this whole situation. But again I'm not sure I should feel that way. Like I said, I'm at a loss.

Her issuing it as an edict is the biggest issue imo. He'd be okay if she went (reading between the lines), as long as she acted like she cared and was sensitive to his feelings.

He's a man though, so he's overreacting. (Of course, if he didn't care, well he'd be an ******* for that too.)

Seems pretty dumb to me to prioritize spending a specific day together just because it was some guy's birthday 2000 years ago (and not even really his birthday) over my partner going on her dream trip with her daughter at the one time of her they can do that, but if that's his dream, it's not my place to **** on it.

Eight nights and days would be better, granted.

Dale those are valid concerns and certainly things you need to talk about, but the sentiment here that it's a deal breaker is ridiculous. You're not going to win an argument with her about this. You're never going to always get your way in any relationship and you need to learn to compromise and not hold a grudge about it and move on. Maybe you have some things you've not willing to compromise on. Maybe this is one of them. But if this is something you can live with one time, and you don't always have to be the one to compromise over everything, then this is not worth questioning your whole relationship over with someone you're planning to marry.

Same with being financially responsible about it. It's not like she's going into debt to buy a $10,000 handbag because she thinks it makes her look so cute. If this is like a one-time thing for her, then it's not a big deal. If this is how she always does everything, then that's different

Good points. Thanks.

This is obviously correct. But from what he's posting his inner-voice is telling him, I inferred (like his OP) there's obviously more to this. Sounds like she may be emotionally unavailable to him and he's going to end up hurt. If she can rationalize doing whatever she sees fit, regardless of his input, that's not good for what his future may look like.

Favourite answer was Kurti's telling OP to solve this problem by joining a cult.

With Gregorio's heated tone it's no wonder he is banned.

This imo.

I don't fully trust we are being given a completely accurate picture, the way information has slowly leaked out.

Most of us agree that the main problem seems to be the communication gaps. And there may be some on both sides. Both sides!

It still doesn't sound like there has been fully healthy communication by either side yet. And that there even needs to be communication about communication, lol. I.e. talking about expectations about when and how and how much to share and communicate and ask each other things (not necessarily permission, but mutual respect for feelings) about decisions like vacation plans and money, which probably means they have different viewpoints on a bunch of other stuff as well.

Anyway, I'm not trying to pile on, by both sides-ing it, as the OP seems like a good guy, does a lot for her & now his daughter, etc, and he may well be in the right more than her (or vice versa still possible), but they both definitely need to work on their communication more.

If she doesn't really care, there will be no working on communication.

Sounds like dude communicates just fine tbh. His explanation on the OP being brief makes sense fwiw, we've already extrapolated too much out of that.

You're assuming. Someone could easily write this from the other side. As him not wanting to let her and her daughter go on a special mother daughter trip to a place that is special to her and has been special to him & her and that she would like to bring her daughter to, the two of them, before she gets married and the dynamic is different.

And then another poster could say about him, if he doesn't really care, there will be no working on communication.

I don't believe that either of the above situations are completely true in this case, but Dodger is posting as if one is and not the other.

Anyway, as an example of communication, he told her about his hurt feelings and what he wanted. Which is good. But that should have come much earlier, on his own, not later, after OOT prodding. And even then, was it prefaced by telling her how he understands her feelings, and that it's a totally legitimate wish for her to take her daughter there on a special mother-daughter trip to a place that has been special to her and to both of them, and to do it before they get married, but Christmas is a particularly special day to him, and is there any way she can just slightly adjust the dates to accommodate his feelings, but if not, he understands? I mean, he may have said that, but we haven't gotten a very good flow of information in this thread.

You edited, but this part is wrong. My or anyone's incorrect extrapolation is the result of an unnecessarily brief OP that omitted relevant info and changes the light in which things are cast.

In short, it's bad communication.

Now, does he owe OOT good communication? On one hand, no. On the other hand, if he wants to get good advice and be fair about things, then yes. Could this indicate poor communication on his part as well with his fiancee? Yes. Not necessarily, as obviously one's irl communication with one's fiancee is drastically different than one's posting in OOT. But it's an indicator.

Again - not necessarily piling on OP, as it does sound like he is a good guy and sacrifices for them, and from his story, that his fiancee is the one who is in the wrong, initially about communication and accounting for his feelings and perhaps other things. But it does sound like his communication is suspect as well, and that we may still not have full info or it may not be entirely accurate, and that there are things he can do to work on and improve their communication as well.

The money is the biggest red flag.

She doesn't have money for the trip. She doesn't know where the money is coming from. There's nothing magical about you two being married that will change the content or context of the trip if taken a year or two from now when she's saved the money for the trip.

Everyone in the situation is entitled to feel whatever they want about whatever they want, but there are more objective standards available by which we can determine whether the trip is a good idea.

Oh, she knows where the money is coming from.

Situation needs live moderation from neutral party. Counselor, priest, friends etc. Long term, important issues popping up. Money, expectations, child custody (adoption?), priorities

How in the world did you manage to buy a house together and not know this?

She's never used the card before. Certainly never had a balance. We have seen each other's credit reports. Her score is something like 770. No blemishes.

Also Christmas was never that important to me. I spent nearly ten Christmases alone and really enjoyed myself. She always makes it a big deal. She loves Christmas. And so have I. It's been especially fun seeing how magical it is for the little girl. And the fiancee has made a point of talking about how excited she is to have our first Christmas in the new house.

Before everyone jumps on me for OMG changed story, I just didn't think about it. I've had other things on my mind.

Also I had previously told her that I found the idea hurtful. It is true that I was a bit upset at the time and should have been more calm. Yesterday I talked to her again but in a more dispassionate manner and also had the idea to suggest an alternative trip as someone suggested.

I too have been with my fiancee for 3+ years, we just bought a house together and she has a 7 year old daughter from a prior relationship. Coincidentally my fiancee is also fluent in French and has spent a ton of time there.

I have no advice, I just wanted to share that my situation is very similar to OP's and I'd be absolutely floored by a trip like this coming up without discussion. I don't think it would be a deal breaker for me, but I could definitely see some sleepless nights. All the best to you OP, good luck.

I agree that it's a big red flag that they need to talk about further.

This is false and perhaps a good example of lol men, or at least lol Rapini.¹ She may or may not feel that it will entirely change the context of the trip. We do not know. There is a chance that the OP does not even know.

The "objective" standards can be debated, but even if agreed upon, that's not the point.


Classic OOT post!


Possible jopke, but this is true. Sounds like these and other important issues definitely need more discussion and good communication.


Twins separated at birth?! Interrogate your parents and find out the truth! Water board if necessary!


¹Will not object to lol patron if I am wrong.