These are good questions. I don't see anything as changing but maybe she does.

And I don't have much to add to the way it was communicated honestly. She mentioned a possible trip. I was like ok cool. Next thing I remember she mentioned Europe. Honestly I think I was so shocked that I might not have said anything to her. Probably bad communication on my part. I told her that I was hurt by this. She's already discussed it with her boss, etc. I talked to her after starting this thread and suggested Disney world and mentioned saving money, etc. Oh and I forgot that she had told me her mother was going to help pay for the trip as part of her Christmas present. This is likely $200 or something as they are elderly, have huge CC debt themselves, and live in a beat up single wide. I think yesterday I suggested they go to Paris next Christmas so she could save money and I was willing to pay half of the girl's ticket.

I'm sure there's something I'm missing but that's about right.

I don't remember her mentioning any trip like this before.

She's 31, about to marry someone 10 years older than her, been to France many times, but the last time she was there she was hanging out with Dale for the entirety so wasn't able to see any of the people she met on past trips.

She arranges an entire plan for an upcoming Christmas trip including taking off work without having a conversation with her Fiance until after the fact, something a considerate person wouldn't do to a person they've been dating for 3 months, let alone 3 years.

I mean....

This is the part that needs fleshing out. She does not sound very good at communication, but she may very well think that you consented to the entire trip, and was shocked that you were surprised and hurt, and thinks ill of you in the same way you are thinking ill of her.

I suppose that's possible. But forgetting to mention to Europe seems like a bit of stretch. But possible. She does have a tendency to be not great at communicating, I have to admit.

I like it. You've made your displeasure known; hopefully she realizes she's being an inconsiderate jerk. But now if you do anything other than enthusiastic support she will feel bad and, by woman logic, that makes you the inconsiderate jerk and you were always the inconsiderate jerk.

LOL @ thinking an 8-year-old is going to remember a trip to Paris as super special when he or she is 20. Do you have any kids over the age of 13?

probably depends on the kid, I don't remember **** from when I was little. But my sister can tell you every ****ing detail of every Christmas we had together from the age of 4 on.

Fathers often have things they've always dreamed of doing alone with their sons. Like Fabian can't wait until his son turns 8 so he can buy him a gun and they can go on a week-long moose-hunting trip in Lapland, and there's no way they're letting mom tag along.

I have lots of memories from being in Europe when I was 6. I went to Disneyland a couple of years later and all I remember is some stupid tea-cup ride and It's a Small World playing non-stop and my mom having a panic attack on the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride.

Try to stop being dumb.

How old were your kids when you took them to Europe?

I took each of my daughters on individual trips to NYC when they were each 8, 12, and then 16.

You do realize that at age 8 children are able to easily form and recall memories?

I apologize if this has been brought up already, I just skimmed the thread.

Is it possible that she met someone when she visited you in Paris? It would certainly explain a lot.

Yes, I realize that. If you had only one choice to take a kid to Europe, either 8 or 16, which age would you choose?

I was almost the first one to say it. I used to work with a guy who caught his wife "cheating" on a business trip to Vancouver. They had met on some dating site years prior. When she went away, he snooped on her email activity (bad move) and saw that she was receiving message notifications from guys on some sort of Ashley Madison type of website. He went there, searched her profile... location said Vancouver, B.C. instead of Vegas.

She swore she was "just bored" and didn't do anything. AFAIK, they're still together.

Lesson Learned.....snooping may confirm your deepest suspicions. But If I was OP, I would be much more concerned with the decision making process of someone willing to max out a card on a $4k overseas getaway with $1,000 to their name. That's one emergency away from being in a really bad spot financially.

Nope. My assertion was that an 8yo is not going to have the recollection of Paris being super special when they are 20 and it's best to wait. Somehow Chesspain took that as I was implying 8yo's are incapable of forming memories or something. Whatever, I'm not the one paying for the trip; that's OP.

I have a recollection of Europe being super special from when I was 6, but granted I didn't go to Paris.

Grunching from this post, but if this trip happens and there is not adequate communication between you both to ensure she opens a new card that gives a bonus for a minimum spend to charge this trip, neither of you are marriage material.

this 10000000x

i dont even like disney that much now but i was a big fan when i was 8. i gave 0 ****s about other countries.

Hot takes with **** advice to follow:

She is feeling the walls of commitment close in with the intertwining of finances and responsibilities and pending nuptials and is expressing a need to remain autonomous, even if she doesn't see it that way. Not saying it is okay, just suggesting that if it is out of character for her it may remain so. Cold feet are so common they have a name.

The advice to run before you get married is dumb. Too late. You bought a house together. You are a father figure to the child. The least significant thing is the wedding vows.

You are not wrong to feel the way you do, but you have an opportunity to get to the bottom of why she feels the way she does rather than better communicate the way you feel. Making her understand you when frankly, you don't really understand you at this point (but what about Christmas!...I never cared about Christmas...etc) is not effective communication in and of itself anyway. You both need to understand yourselves and each other.

Tell you what though, the answer to search for is not what this issue signifies, but if you guys will either get better or worse from attempts to work it out. It will either become a success story for you regardless of the final decision or a lingering resentment to be revisited alone and together that will make it more difficult and unlikely to address other things successfully later.

BTW, whether a kid would prefer Paris or Orlando or that she had said she was excited to spend xmas in the new house previously is not a productive place to start with her.


ETA: Did you tell you her you are confused about the feelings this is bringing up for you? You told us that.

I like that a bunch of old men know whether an 8 year old girl will like Paris or not :P

Also, lol at concocting a trip to go meet your lover and bringing your 8 year old with you. If that were the case, he should break up with her for being stupid not for cheating on him.

Are you actually unable to see any goalposts moving between the next two quotes?


And where does this "only one choice" stuff come in anyway, when you already knew that there's no such thing as only one choice?