That may be true (although I have my doubts) but I rather suspect that counsel didn't have the material I've got on you.

G10 was the single most irritating poster in the original thread, but mildly redeemed himself with the Custer hoops bet for which (check that please, LKJ) I was the escrow agent.

I don't mind him being in exile, but I don't feel strongly about it.

That's my last post for a while, fellas. I have a meeting in three hours for which I'm not yet ready.

El Diablo,

Nothing really surprised them like "that sounds like a standard case being blown out of proportion", or "yea, I believe some corrupt **** could have happened"?

I don't remember that, lol.

Don't try using historical revisionism to win me over to the dark side. I expect to be proudly sitting on the less crowded side of the courtroom when the trial begins!

You're still paying for dinner for everyone.

lbr is truly elite

Draw,

As in, you wouldn't believe the kind of shady corrupt **** that sometimes goes down and the level of ****ty incompetence by some attorneys.

Conversation I had last week with a young public defender I know:

Me - How are things going?
Him - I got a not-guilty verdict on a robbery trial last week?
Me - Was he guilty?
Him - Not of robbery.

I do not recall this happening.

sounds like that public defender is pretty good

i said you would not find "that many" studies. there are still some out there. sorry i didnt feel like spoon feeding you information that would surely deny or ignore. but, since i have a bit more time right now, and it may help some other people, ill list a few studies.

lets see, ill just google aa rate of success

http://www.npr.org/2014/03/23/291405...-step-recovery

same researcher and study, but there are lots of great lines in this article too http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...-steps/284616/

and finally, this page is full of studies from various sources. it completely destroys aa.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

lol aa now and forever. there may be no institution more dangerous.

The Harvard Mental Health Letter, from The Harvard Medical School, stated quite plainly:

On their own
There is a high rate of recovery among alcoholics and addicts, treated and untreated. According to one estimate, heroin addicts break the habit in an average of 11 years. Another estimate is that at least 50% of alcoholics eventually free themselves although only 10% are ever treated. One recent study found that 80% of all alcoholics who recover for a year or more do so on their own, some after being unsuccessfully treated. When a group of these self-treated alcoholics was interviewed, 57% said they simply decided that alcohol was bad for them. Twenty-nine percent said health problems, frightening experiences, accidents, or blackouts persuaded them to quit. Others used such phrases as "Things were building up" or "I was sick and tired of it." Support from a husband or wife was important in sustaining the resolution.
Treatment of Drug Abuse and Addiction — Part III, The Harvard Mental Health Letter, Volume 12, Number 4, October 1995, page 3.

"...there is a paucity of scientific studies supporting the superior effectiveness of AA."
Reid K. Hester and William R. Miller (eds.)
Handbook of Alcoholism Treatment Approaches: Effective Alternatives. New York: Pergamon (1989), page 165.

...AA research has been mostly pre-experimental in design, has failed to use instrumentation of established reliability, has usually not attempted to check for the validity of the self report data obtained, has inadequately assessed the nature of subjects' alcohol problems, has been deficient in describing demographic characteristics of the sample and has sampled an unrepresentatively large number of middle-aged people and an unrepresentatively small number of women...
Emrick, Tonigan, Montgomery, Little (1993)

"It has often been alleged, but the allegations never substantiated experimentally, that behavior and conditioning therapies represent purely symptomatic treatment and that such treatment is usually ineffective in the long run."
Cyril M. Franks, Ph.D.
in Alcoholism: Its Scope, Cause, and Treatment, Dr. Ruth Fox, ed. (1955), page 189.

A recent review by the Cochrane Library, a health-care research group, of studies on alcohol treatment conducted between 1966 and 2005 states its results plainly:
"No experimental studies unequivocally demonstrated the effectiveness of AA or TSF [12-step facilitation] approaches for reducing alcohol dependence or problems."
We're addicted to rehab. It doesn't even work., By Bankole A. Johnson, The Washington Post, Sunday, August 8, 2010
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080602660.html

Dr. and Prof. Bankole A. Johnson currently serves as Alumni Professor and Chairman of the Department of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia. Look here.

theres really no reason to belittle and insult me. nothing i said was logically inconsistent. "arent that many" is not the same as "there are none," as you imply.

im sorry that i touched a nerve with you by denigrating your precious community. i do think it goes a bit deeper with you, do you derive your income or livelihood in some fashion from aa?

whatever, it doesnt really matter. i just hope that a few ppl read some of my links or at least try to apply a critical eye to aa if for some reason they are forced to attend.

Wtf with this AA discussion, take it to the Quitting Drinking thread penetrate. Beeyoft

gaped

dog door

tyler if you truly understand the internet you know what to do.

El Diablo,

The compelling thing about Making A Murder the story it tells is the most shady and corrupt thing law enforcement can do. If you believe shady corrupt things do happen (and almost everyone does), the door is open to "well what is the worst?". If you believe the story, this is it.

I don't think tyler owns any Metallica

nah I think Victor is a 2p2 OG. he should be Metallica proof for the crime of posting about AA in a firmly anti-help people with problems thread.

That's good, because I was just kidding.

well, first i expressed my disdain about aa without insulting anyone (that is still alive; i did call out the founder for what he was.) tyler flew off the handle and insulted me in many ways, one of which was for not posting a ton of information that no one wants to see that is easily googlable for anyone not being intentionally obtuse.

i think he also insulted my gambling abilities but im not sure about that. see, he said he was a better gambler than me. im not sure how he knew that. perhaps he is an amazingly great gambler, in which case, him being better than me may not be so bad for me. or maybe hes a really bad gambler, but he thinks im worse. see, that would be insulting to me, but also to him kinda. and ofc, im not even sure what gambling has to do with this discussion.

If the regular 2+2 OG posters have the writing skills of a ten year old then he is half way there. I feel like I'm in the thread, "How many five year olds can you beat in an argument?", lol.

I see I hit a nerve of yours Victor, perhaps you could try posting like an adult and someone might (just might!) take you serious. On a forum where we are judging intelligence by the written word, you may want to at least fake that you are semi-literate.

And I don't need to make money off of anything to survive, I don't even work, lol.

And yes, I do know how to internet! I will never reach down to converse with you again. (Well, maybe if you need a translation into whatever language you speak. y u mad bro?)

haha, yup, just as i predicted.

sorry your precious aa got pizorownaged broseph.

Victor,

Are you being paid by Babs to make this thread unreadable?

Howard,

My expectations are set high as you've now mentioned your BIG NEWS twice.