I have posted here once before in a time of great need and lack of direction and got a lot of good advice and it really was a turning point in my life.

I will try to summarize my situation as best as I can for anyone not familiar with it, I've chronicled all of it in my blog but I don't expect anyone to have read or followed most or any of it after all this time. Feel free to skip the next few paragraphs of back story.

after i made that post and took some suggestions from that initial thread, I sought therapy, and I got a lot better. i got my depression under control, and other than a few flareups, particularly last year, that problem is mostly gone. I started doing very well with women and struck up a relationship with a girl about a year after I began that thread, and that led me down a path to going back to school.

I did really well. I went to my local CC, free of charge because I was making only $8/hour at the time, and i made it work with my school schedule. I chose computer science because I showed a strong aptitude for math and programming early on in my coursework and it seemed like it had good career opportunities. At my day job, I progressed from a deckhand to captain and doubled my salary. I worked full time for the entirety of my lower division as a captain.

I ****ing LOVED all aspects of my life early on. I could not get enough of it. eventually, due to a combination of real life issues, particularly relationship wise, I got burnt out. I decided my dream school was UCI and I set myself on going there. I still at this point loved my job as a captain and had a 4.0 GPA.

That fell apart in 2015 when the girl I had been dating from work, who I was deeply in love with, was cheating on me with another coworker. Since then it's been a slow but steady decline. I lost the passion I had for my job and burned a lot of bridges with my boss. She worked there for another year and we had an on again, off again relationship until she finally quit when she chose her current boyfriend over me and I told her very firmly that if she didn't leave, our thing would never end and her boyfriend would eventually find out. she quit 2 weeks later.

So i kept at the school thing. I still have to see that stupid mother****er she cheated on me with. He started a very successful business right next to where I work, within ~30 feet. I see him every time I go to work. That hasn't been easy until very lately.

I transferred to UCI with a 4.0 as a computer science major. Berkeley and UC San Diego accepted me, but only as a math major. I naively decided CS would be a better path for me and didn't want to move so I went to UCI. I got full ride scholarships and grants and make about ~6k per quarter in extra money after tuition, which freed me from the need to work 5 days/week at my captain job. Now I work 2 days (saturday and sunday) , but for a while I was at 4 days and then 3.



***** FAST FORWARD TO NOW *****
I've maintained a 3.6 GPA at UCI. My overall GPA is a 3.9. I am almost certainly going to graduate with honors in June. However, in the last year in particular, I haven't really been applying myself and have been simply going through the motions of school, never attending class and just studying what I need to get a B/A- in whatever class I'm in. It's not that hard for me to study for a day before the exam and be able to pass it even if I haven't kept up on the material. I've been using this ability to slide by for the past year but the side effect is that I don't think I'm really retaining anything or learning anything.

I've started looking for jobs but have had 2 really disappointing and frustrating interview experiences. One was with a total tire kicker of a company with an ******* interviewer and lead dev. I probably could have got the job but decided I didn't want to work there.

about a month ago i had a pretty promising interview with a good company in Irvine that's owned by my professor but i didn't do as well as I could have and they never emailed me after the interview.

now I'm kind of lost. I don't even know if i want to do this for a living, I have no passion, and feel I have no ability or practical knowledge. They really exposed this knowledge gap in my last interview. i feel I have only gone to school to pass my tests and get good grades and i don't really know anything at all.

i know i will probably get a job. i'm not really worried about that. I'm worried I'll hate it or be under qualified and fail with not much to fall back on. At my current job, I used to make $16.50 until a recent mutiny at my work against my current boss ended up in a situation where I had a conversation with the owner about how all the captains wages had not been adjusted for inflation in like 15 years and that's why he had so much turnover. My boss called me within 2 weeks of that conversation and bumped me up to $17/hr from 16.50. everyone else was making like $14. However, I recently learned that EVERYONE, even the brand new captains, got bumped up to this rate. This really ****ing pisses me off, I've been there nearly 14 years now and am by far the most experienced captain there. I feel I got shafted and i know it's entitled and bitchy of me but I just can't shake the feeling it's a slap in the face because if my boss had wanted to, he could have got me more. I am so, so over this job and my boss and my coworkers. My coworkers are mostly incompetent.

About my coworkers: one is severely autistic and somehow became a captain. He is underqualified, dangerous, and a pest. He causes problems for everyone. 1 of his (underage) female deckhands have quit because they caught him taking photos of them. Others have suspected the same in the past. I have frequent issues with him and 1 other coworker, who is an actual nazi. he used to come to work wearing the SS double lightning symbol, and then had the gall to complain to my boss that I had told someone else that this guy was a nazi. I explained to my boss what this guy wears to work and my boss feigned ignorance about what that symbol meant but that he "would make sure he stopped wearing it to work." This coworker still sends memes to other coworkers about jew killing and every reprehensible thing you can imagine. My boss will do nothing about it ever so I don't even go there.

financially:
to make matters even easier for me financially than they already are, it should be mentioned I get a rather decently sized inheritance next january (2019). I am going to inherit $135k.


***DISCLAIMER PLEASE PLEASE READ BEFORE BLASTING ME ***

I know in the past the fact i have an inheritance has made me come across like an entitled trust fund brat but I really have worked super hard to get where I've come and it hasn't been easy. the inheritance was unexpected and i am really grateful for all the opportunities i have been given by the state of california and through the hard work of my grandfather. I don't deserve it and i am really grateful. but to this point, I have not touched a dime of my family's money so I've come to this point mostly on my own merit.

I get a little help too because I pay basically no rent. I inherited my dad's lease when he died, I rent from an elderly senile SEVERELY christian woman who only charges me $800 for my crappy apartment. I sublet the other room to a friend. without this I couldn't have pulled this off either. I hate this place too though because she monitors my comings and goings and doesn't like it when i have girls over.


What I need for advice is this:

where the **** do i go from here?
how do i get a job I'll actually enjoy?
should I waste more time, give up on CS and mooch off my inheritance and live life til i figure out what I want to do?


working 5 days in an office for a job I like even marginally better than my current one sounds like a nightmare. if i end up hating it, I fear a relapse in my depression that i will not recover from.

sorry if this post has been long and rambly. I appreciate you reading it and any responses. i know this is a total first world 1% problems post but it's causing me quite a bit of distress in the last 6 months and i really don't know what to do with myself anymore.

1. 135k is not a huge amount of money and you should treat it like you dont have it. Since you are making income from your captain job, have you started an IRA? Retirement fund would be a good place to put the inheritance money.

2. It seems from your blog that you like programming but now you're saying you don't. Which is it?

3. Dont let a few interviews that didnt work out get you down. If you feel there is a knowledge gap, go seek out the answers to those questions you failed on in the interview.

j,

Would you feel the same way if you've gotten a job as a result of the interviews?

Your posts here and in your journal always show a high level of self-awareness.

You should keep plugging away at interviews for as long as you still want to work as a programmer - you're getting better at them each time, but there is such a wide variety of companies out there looking for programmers I'd expect it to take a while for someone in your shoes to find a job, because on top of all the obvious things it's also/largely a matter of compatible personalities.

You need to learn to take interview rejection in your stride, because believe me you'll experience a lot more of it during your career. A grand total of two interviews is really just a blip on a chart. When I was starting out as a programmer, having transferred from a related field, it took numerous rejections before I found someone stupid enough to take a risk with me (I had some experience but no relevant qualifications). You're in the opposite position, as expected from a someone about to graduate, and you need to persevere as much in your job search as you have in doing your job that you don't like.

Absolutely do not consider option 3. Why are you already assuming you won't enjoy your next job much more than the current one? The problems with colleagues being Nazis and creeps shouldn't occur in a professional environment with an HR department (though I won't pretend that office jobs aren't riddled with other forms of annoyingly creepy behaviour).

If you can't stick it beyond June and think your boss might be influencing your job prospects, you could take up the offer you've already had here of alternative employment and make sure you get a good reference for when you get a job offer - which you will.

Unless alot has changed in the past decade or so since I graduated, most of the time you're not going to come out of school with all the technical skills that a company needs in a new hire. Make sure you can bring up a couple anecdotes in the interview that highlight your ability to learn new things quickly, along with how you like new challenges.

Not being sure if you want to spend the rest of your life doing programming in a cubicle is normal, but until you actually get that job, you're never going to know if the field is for you. I've found taht it's the work environment that matters more than the specific job when it comes to enjoyment.

I would try things out. I would apply and try to get into a programming job. And if you hate it at some point just leave. To learn just to leave was huge for my job satisfaction. I wouldn't think a lot about money. Money will follow when you do what you like and find cool. I would totally think about sense of purpose and environment you could enjoy. And I so would do what cit said: find something like an open source project, something you find really cool and try to contribute. Not for the resume, but because it gives you flow and is cool. And your resume will become better just automatically.

I wouldn't " just live the life " because how will that help you figure out, what do you actually want to do? The only way I know to approach this question is to try stuff out.

I would go for cool and fun and flow, for this high you have, when solving difficult math problem. And really put the effort in to get there.

Getting a job you actually enjoy is something you need to earn after doing jobs you do because you need to pay the bills.

Which means starting off lower in the industry, doing the grunt work, and working your way up.

The enjoyable jobs are also wanted by people with more experience and track record in the industry, so you're not going to *start* in them.

jmakin,
I read your blog regularly and have always had this question: Doesn't UCI provide any assistance in helping their students find appropriate jobs? You've consistently presented yourself as identifying job opportunities entirely on your own, and I think that independence is a good thing. But my guess is that UCI has some kind of career services and/or alumni network that could be very effective in helping you with a career path that suits you. Have you worked with them at all?

Here's the simplest and best advice I can give for deciding what to do with your life: Pick a passion, not a paycheck.

J, how old are you?

Obviously you live off the 135k until Pokerstars is legal again in the states... 3 years I think?

Or more seriously try looking for startups to join. I think that type of work environment may suit you best as long as you don't alienate yourself.

Idk 135k is enough to take the time and become good enough at almost anything and be able to make money off it imo

Jmakin, I really enjoy you as a poster and your contributions. The best advice I can give you is take care of your mental health first. In the past 5 years, I've had jobs from $11/hr to averaging $14k/mo as a 1099 media buyer for an advertising agency and a wide range in between. The thing is, when I was at my peak, that 14-15k/mo came with exorbitant 70+ hour weeks working from home for a madman who would literally text/email/call asking for ROI updates from 7am - 3am daily. It didn't matter if I had scheduled vacation, was out sick, the sicko even called me 8times in a row during a funeral for a 9year old cousin which he knew I was attending. I always felt obligated to the company because in 2 1/2 years I saw dozens of people in my role fired for non performance.

I was making more money during 8 months than I had ever seen in my life, but was also the most miserable. I had no time for any hobby that I enjoyed, poker included. My realtionship was in shambles with my GF as I was constantly on edge, stressed out, and absolutely no fun, and due to the doom & gloom nature of my personality, I was always thinking catastrophic about when this would all end. It finally ended when he stiffed me for 3 months pay totalling ~$15k when our campaigns we're on the downswing. My spending was out of control, because I was making more in 60 days than I had before in 1year at other jobs.

When I started seeing a therapist is when it all clicked. I was happiest working as a chef 13 years ago when I was in college. It wasn't because of the pay, it was because of the environment. There was amazing management that made everyone feel like family. We went through the toughest times together and the reward was always great for busting your butt. I started working for another agency about 8 months ago, on the bottom floor again, but I knew my worth and went into the interview with a strong case, a 25+ slide presentation on the value that I could bring to the company and a 30-60-90 day action plan and I promised them that if I couldn't increase ROI by 200% on day 90 then we could amicably part ways. I told them that I would work the first 30 days for free (essentially), only taking 10% net ROI on my spending. In this industry, you usually don't see positive until day 90. Long story short, on day 90 I was offered a director position and 2 months ago I was relocated to a partner firm. I'm making a lot less than I was a year ago (~85k) but it's more than enough to take care of all of my needs and affords me the security and time off that I need to persue other interests.

Getting the weekly therapy for 6 months really helped me see my true value as a person when all my life I hated who I was. It also gave me the confidence to go to an employer and differentiate myself from every other candidate that they spoke to. I would say stick with the therapy as long as possible and let your natural growth dictate your direction. I remember one month getting a check for $21,800 and I immediately spent 75% of it in a weekend on a drunken bender in sports betting, video poker, hookers, and blow because I had broken up with my GF and nothing mattered anymore. That would have never happened if I was in a healthy state of mind. Saving 15k would have been the smart play and something that I would have thanked myself for over and over again had I been mentally healthy.

Just like throwing a power punch, sometimes you have to take a step back to execute it perfect and get the win, or else you're in the same spot "jabbing" forever and never seeing progress.

We are happiest in life when we feel of value, you just have to have the patience and find that value and find the work environment that is going to value your skills the most. The monetary gain will come along with that hard work.

You definitely finish the degree. Even if you work for a year and decide you hate the industry. There’s basically nothing that having a bachelor’s is a negative for and tons of things it’s mandatory/useful for.

I’m 36 and on my 4th different industry. Started with an engineering degree, 2 years in, didn’t like it. I may not use the specific engineering stuff I learned, but one part (I would say the main part) of an education is teaching you how to learn just in general and how to learn specific things in the degree area, which will be helpful whatever you do. Changing careers is common today and there isn’t really any social or professional stigma to it, so don’t worry about “having” to do that. If it happens, it happens. Just get out there and immerse yourself in the spamming resume and interview grind.

Dude, chill. You haven't even graduated yet. ... Perhaps your depression has returned a little?

You're in a good spot. Not a bad spot. You have options and resources and an education. No one said you had to figure out what you want to do, or maybe more importantly, how you want to go thru life, right NOW.

Sometimes things feel imperative, like we have to WORK THIS **** OUT RIGHT NOW, when in fact they're not.

Going into a job under-qualified is not a bad thing, so long as you did not lie to get the job. Take your first job hoping for it to be a continuation of your education, not a destination.

It's ok not to have any of this figured out. Ever, even.

I am serious about the depression question--sometimes I become aware my reactions don't seem quite right and I have to ask myself what's up. Sometimes that can mean med tweaks, sometimes it means nothing.

Why don't you graduate, travel some, take a few months and then see were you are, headspace-wise?

Jmakin,

While I feel like I've read nearly every post you've made outside your blog, I've rarely read anything in it. I read it briefly when you started it and once quickly recently but I'm 99% ignorant of what happens in there.

I'll have more detailed thoughts but I just want to start by saying I'm impressed you have been able to both keep this job for 14 years and living at a building where someone monitors you.

Both of those situations would have reached the limits of my patience a very long time ago. The working world of software development (granted I've been an engineer for <1 year, but I've worked in the industry for 7+ years) is not even remotely comparable to the things you've had to do.

You should basically use this graduation as a turning point to start your life over and work on rebuilding yourself and then you will find someone much much better than the last girl you were with.

They're jobs, bro. Nobody enjoys jobs except a few weirdasses.

J,

SIDEBAR: I follow your twitch stream, seems like a cool hobby. I'm not aware of the financials regarding making partner and growing the channel. It does seem like a serious marketing effort needs to go in unless the player is world class at a popular game, excluding celebrities of course.

What would making partner at Hearthstone do for you as a revenue stream?

Do you have an interest in performing in other media? I thought you were very good as an interviewer talking to HIV. I would very likely watch a podcast where you discussed culture and women.

While most of the youtube starlets have some kind of 'it' factor, they are mostly devoid of much capacity for thought.

+1

If you have programming skills, you have the world by the balls. You can do contract work and go do whatever you want in life. You have chosen the perfect field if freedom is what you seek.

My best friend does exactly that. He'll do contract work for 2 months and take two months off and travel. He runs out of money and does another contract bit.

Except for those few weirdasses who somehow do manage to turn their passion into a career, jobs are just a means to an end.

Make sure your depression is in check.

first off, A+ on the title

I have a similar school trajectory as you, except that I started off as CS in CC and then went with math when I transferred to university (I grad in may), but I'm friends with CS majors and I work in the tutoring center and see lots of the upper division CS class work. Most of these people are pretty terrible at actually programming anything and are severely lacking in the knowledge department when it comes to skills jobs want you to have as a junior developer. So I wouldn't really feel bad, or beat yourself up that just passing your classes has hurt your abilities. You could pretty easily fix this pretty quickly by working on these deficiencies on your own. That means tho youd have to have at least enough passion to put in the work, which it sounds like maybe you dont? It's hard to tell if you arent happy with where you are at, because of where you are at, or because of where you feel you are heading (only you would know anyway)

Is there anything keeping you to the area past school? I feel like if I were you what my plan would be is to graduate, then get the **** out of the situation you are in entirely.

Also $135K isn't really very much money, long term I think you should use that as a jump start on your retirement than doing nay kind of living off of it.

Go back and read your blog since 2015 and tell me you actually believe think you've been in a slow and steady decline since then. You've been making lots of progress with a therapist over a prolonged period, you're about to graduate from a good school something cum laude, and even if things aren't going great right now, you're in some kind of undefined relationship with the hottest (and maybe least crazy) girl you've ever been with. Also see if you notice any correlation with your mood and exam time at the end of the semester. Sure you've had some setbacks, but your trajectory has been upwards since starting that blog in 2011.
Why? This doesn't make much sense to me. If you'd worked in an office before and it led you into a depression that took you years to recover from, then sure, maybe don't try that again. But your worst periods of depression coincide with relationship breakups, so why would you assume it's a bad experience with a job that's going to trigger a major depression? And you've recovered from all of your depressive episodes in the past, so why would this be the one you never recover from? If you want to try to avoid things that could make you depressed again, then avoid having a relationship. But no, don't do that obviously, because living your life avoiding things you want because they could at some future point lead you to be depressed is no way to live your life.

You hate change. You didn't want to move to go to school. Fair enough; that was not a bad decision, and probably a good one since starting a real school was intimidating so why add to that stress by relocating if that's also something you'd find intimidating. You also don't want to more for a job. Fair enough; starting a career is intimidating, so why add to that stress by relocating if that's also something you'd find intimidating?

But not even trying to work in a job related to what you went to school for because it might trigger a depression you'd never recover from, that doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't you at least try:

• You have to do something new that you're uncomfortable with
• You might get depressed
• You'd have to give up your current job

Big ****ing deal:

• You hate your current job. Okay, maybe you don't hate your current job (because it's familiar and you know what to expect so it's not that stressful), but you don't love it, and: you hate your current boss; you hate your current co-workers; you hate dealing with the idiot customers. Do you want to be working at your current job for the next 30 years? If not, when are you going to change jobs if not right after you graduate from a good school with a degree in a field that offers lots of jobs?
• Living your life with the goal of avoiding things that might make you depressed is a great way to make yourself depressed. You end up with an extremely narrow and limited life in which you keep avoiding more things so you don't get depressed, you withdraw more from the word, and you end up with an life you hate and can't escape from. And guess what. Now you’re really depressed

So what happens if you get a job in your field?

• You might actually like it
• You might hate it as much as your current job but make a ****ton more money doing it while gaining experience that opens up other doors in your future
• You dread getting out of bed every day and feel like your falling into a big depression. So what? Then quit your job. Apply for another job as captain. Apply to grad school in math. You've got $150k saved up so if it takes you 6 months to find a new job or you have to wait a year to get into school, it's not a big deal. And you don’t spend the rest of your life wondering why you didn’t at least try to work in the field you went to school for.

Now about having applied for a few jobs and not getting hired yet, do you have any idea how many people apply for these jobs? If you're applying for CS job postings without some inside connections, you're potentially competing against a few hundred other people, many of whom are decent, qualified candidates. If you get an interview, you're beating out dozens or hundreds of other people. If you don't get an interview, you're still beating out dozens or hundreds of other people. Yeah it sucks. Yeah it's frustrating. But don't take it personally. You need to apply for a lot of jobs. You probably need to get a lot of interviews that don't lead to offers. And when you do get a job, it's like winning a poker tournament--you had to play well, but you also got lucky and beat out a bunch of people who could have just as easily won that job instead of you.

J,

Some developers are still getting hired from dev bootcamps, so if you want a software engineering job, you can get one if you’re graduating with honors with a cs degree from a UC school.

Having open source projects of your own and/or contributing to projects is always a positive.

Agree that two interviews is nothing. Barely a tutorial on how to interview.

If you are going to graduate from a UC with honors and you aren't even making it to classes, you must be smart enough.

You will need connections to make things easier. Second the work with the school's placement program idea.

Also as scummy as they can be, work with recruiters. They can get you contracts or even temp gigs where you are working for the agency itself. Robert Half, TekSystems, etc.

That would get you some production experience and references, can easily lead to FTE offers as well.

Good luck.

For real, I have 2 interviews scheduled for later today and have had almost 10 in the last 2 months. Gotten offers and turned em down. Don't let 2 bad ones get you down. After a few more you will be totally comfortable and they won't even phase you. Don't blow your inheritance, put that **** to work.

wow i did not expect so many thoughtful replies already to wake up to. i am trying to respond as best as i can but i read them all and i really appreciate the feedback. I have 2 finals to study for today so i'm a little busy atm but here is the best i can do for right now:


i don't really like it as far as what I've worked on so far. I like computer science marginally better because it's more mathy. But CS != programming as I'm sure you're well aware.


yes i think so because i had a serious convo with my therapist a few weeks ago about whether I would even accept the job if I was offered it

i don't deal with rejection well as i'm sure you're aware from reading my blog over the years. it's a really weak area for me. I got over it a little bit in casual dating but i think it'll take a lot more job rejection for me to build up a callous to it. It just reaffirms every bad belief I have about myself.

yes I have been using that resource. they have a website for alums where jobs are posted. when finals are over I'm going to spam my resume.

29

I agree with the last sentence but the problem is I don't really want to do anything

i am going to stay in therapy but i also lose my health insurance in september so that's a looming problem I need to deal with too. I agree with your points about money.

i don't think my depression has returned but my anxiety has been spiking to dangerous levels lately and my old stomach problems are returning, which i've learned is my body warning me that I need to slow down and take it easy

people keep telling me this but I just picture myself in an office and feel I would get so bored. I cannot sit down for long periods of time, even a 50 minute class period I get super antsy and have to leave sometimes. my job is perfect for my attention span because I am always walking around

I want to do this more, my stream started taking off last summer but because of school I had to put it on hold and I lost all my viewership. Viewership was sort of declining anyway, hearthstone is a terrible platform for growth as a streamer because it is so saturated already. So unless you're a consistent top player (I am very good but by no means a top player) it's extremely hard to get a good following. I have a few "super fans" that still pop in but mostly the stream is dead for now.

I think I would like to pursue the entertainment option more but I am not very disciplined and it seems ridiculously hard to take off.

the thing keeping me in the area the most is my anxiety about moving, followed pretty closely for a desire to stay near my sister and newly born nephew, and followed by that is a desire to stay with my current girlfriend.

Idk where my relationship is going though or if it has legs so it's a condition that could very quickly change.

i agree with what you're saying but i don't have time to properly reply to it so i will do my best.

2015 was a brutally difficult year. 2016 wasn't much better. in 2017 I had a complete relapse of my depression that I didn't think i'd recover from and i had severe stomach issues which were related to my anxiety.

those are always lurking and I feel my other bad habits, some of which I won't talk about here and don't talk about in my blog, are returning and getting worse. Smoking and drinking for instance.

i think my main issue is a phenomena i like to call the "embarrassment of riches" problem in hearthstone. it's where your hand is SO good and your equity is SO high that you almost don't know what to do because you have so many good, +EV decisions ahead of you. then you become terrified of jeopardizing your sweet situation so you make an inferior play out of fear. that's kind of where i am right now, i could do literally anything with myself. that is completely overwhelming to me especially since i don't have any idea what i want on the most basic level.

everyone in /programming says employers don't give a **** about your pet projects but i have a few i can show off.

Grunching...
J,
Don't worry about being underqualified. You never really learn until you start working and apply things in actual real world applications. You will learn more in your first two years of working than you ever did in school, and things from school will start clicking. You think you understand something, but then you actually do it and really understand it. I think you will find this exciting and get a lot of fullfillment from it; stop thinking about a boring 8-5 job and think about all the cool **** you will get to do.