hmm so lemme get this straight, maybe i owe you an apology.. you believe in the new testament literally, but you recognize the old testament as a collection of made-up parables? i mean, i agree talking snakes never tricked anybody into doing anything, but you're the one who said you read the bible literally.

Dr. Meh,

Is it really that hard to understand? Most people hate hypocrisy

I'm likely a cancer, but it isn't a plot.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usato...ory/547336001/

I'll get to writing responses now but that's an interesting article.

Yes, there are a ton of Christian hypocrites. I would venture to say that we are all hypocrites to an extent simply because we are all sinners yet a large number of us look down our noses on other sinners.

And you're right, believing in a lot of the stories in the Bible seems irrational from a naturalist/humanistic point of view. The problem is (and you won't like this response) is that some people are spiritually blind. They have chosen not to believe in anything they can't see, touch, hear, or replicate. But there are phenomena that simply don't meet that criteria but still very much exist. Things such as being in love. Yes, science explains HOW it works via neurotransmitters, pheromones, and perceived compatibility but it doesn't explain WHY it happens. And that's the fundamental difference between science and religion. They aren't at odds with one another, they are simply asking different questions. Religion attempts to find the meaning behind the science and behind why things are the way they are as evidenced by scientific discovery. Science is rational in the discovery of how things work but does not and can not answer why things are the way they are. Those who aren't asking the question "why" become closed off and exclusively interested in the observable and measurable "how." Because they aren't asking the right question, they perceive the answer to be irrational and illogical.

Nobody is forcing you to believe what they believe or act how they act. It seems difficult for you to accept that we are all different but all the same in that we are all human. The respect sought is to accept that we are humans and have different opinions and that's ok. That doesn't mean we're stupid, hate filled, closed minded, or irrational. It means we are different and on our life journey, we chose a different path. As a fellow human, you should be able to respect that and respect our differences.

Now, you mentioned important decisions being made for you and I can only assume you mean politically. I can see how someone who is leading based on teachings of a God you don't believe in can be troublesome. But I would ask that you consider each political issue separately and realize the best solution for you and your family still might be reached by a politician who used prayer or faith as a means to reach that solution. Why would the way they formulated legislation matter if the end result is what you support? I do agree that politics and religion have become too intertwined in this country. Years ago, I was pretty heavily involved in politics and frequently debated people. I found that I started to hate those not in line with my political affiliations and made the choice to completely abstain from politics so I can focus on showing the love and kindness we are supposed to express. I've found that it has completely changed my interactions and relationships with others for the better. It's a shame that this country has become so divided politically that people are dehumanizing and degrading those who don't agree with them.

It's important to realize that the vast majority of Christians in this country don't actually practice their faith. When you meet someone who is ambivalent about politics or religion and ask them what they believe, you'll often get shoulder shrugs followed by "Christian, I guess." It's sort of the default answer for a lot of the people wrapped up in watching the Kardashians and other nonsense. These people should definitely not be the measuring stick of what being a Christian is about. Likewise, the crazy people who preach hate are not representing what being a Christian is all about. Yes, acknowledging sin as sin is important but telling people they're going to hell is not the Christian way of trying to help people out of sin through love. We're supposed to show that we care and love others and THAT'S why we are concerned about their salvation. Instead, a large number of supposed Christians insult and degrade in an attempt to make themselves feel superior to others. It's easy to see how that approach is hypocritical, insulting, and annoying.

I think I did in post #49.

Yes, I am very familiar with the Halo Effect (or the Pitchfork Effect in this case). Still, it seems people react with much more vitriol and hatred around this forum, and the internet in general, to people who identify as being Christian rather than Jewish, Muslim, or atheist. With the exception of neo-nazis who hate Jewish people for some reason.

I'm a little confused about your last sentence and I'm not sure what you're saying. You don't get how all that with religion and state works? Can you clarify what you're saying there?

Jesus spoke in parables and often identified when He was doing so. He did this so humans can understand and relate to the lessons He was teaching. So yes, I recognize the use of parables throughout scripture. In your reference to the serpent convincing Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, I don't know if it's a parable and the snake represents her inner thoughts and desires or something, or if it was literal. Believing in God means I don't limit what is possible for Him or the Bible based on my human understanding. So I'm not sure if it's literal or not and, frankly, it doesn't matter to me. It wouldn't negate my faith or belief either way.

See post #80

Dr. Meh, serious question, what are your thoughts on homosexuality and transgender people.

And what are your thoughts on Hebrew slaves? Do you agree they should be set free after 6 years, like the Bible says?

What about Ephesians 6:5–8:5? You on board with that?

To me it means that, instead of thinking rationally about what moral precepts should be followed, you let it all be decided for you by an ancient book which says horrible things, like people should be punished / killed for being homosexual, being part of the non-chosen ethnic group, believing in a different god, eating shellfish, etc...

I honestly don't see how anyone could respect the bible, if they have actually read the entire thing. It even says that if a man rapes a virgin, his punishment is...wait for it...he has to marry her! Do any Christian women actually support this precept? And if not, how do they stay in the religion? Of course, they pick and choose from it what they want to believe and what they don't want to believe. But then, what is the point of having the bible at all? Just write down the stuff you really believe and start your own religion around what you wrote; at least I could respect that.

Dr.Meh,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'm less concerned with cornering you I was simply trying to offer an answer to your loaded question, why the "hate", but you brought up much more.

I can tell you off the bat my positions on hypocrisy, religion and spirituality are not what you have assigned to me, but the most glaring issue is saying that people who are not what you call spiritual do not believe in anything they can't prove. Just so not true and frankly the opposite of the truth. I personally don't know the world is round, germs get me sick or even that I have organs inside me. I don't know that any history is true at all. The volume of information I believe, not just in science but in every aspect of my life day to day without having a bit of proof is staggering. But I make educated guesses on what accept all day that I also accept are wrong frequently, likely much more frequently than I even know. Religion is the opposite of this, it is the single stamp answer to all of it that can never be wrong because it is god's plan for us. I do not accept that.

My theory is we are just the most successfully invasive species alive at the moment and have evolved to a painful point in cognitive thought and historical context where we can wonder about more than we can answer. That's the whole ****ing ball of wax. There may be a meaning beyond that but I don't know it and don't pretend to and asking me or any other stupid hairless ape to explain it is the same as asking my daughter's kindergarten class how an internal combustion engine works. You may get some interesting answers but none of them are worth **** if you want the truth.

As for the "why" of love, that one has a simple observable answer. Look at every other living thing for contexts from bacteria to our closest primate relatives and we all are programmed to pass our genetic material on in the most favorable way possible. Period.

As far as all of us being hypocrites, I think we provably are and not slightly-entirely. That doesn't absolve the blatant hypocrisy in the way people practice religion. There is no rule that states a group must house 100% of the hypocrisy on earth to be called out on it. And there is also no rule that states calling out must be done equally at all times or not at all.

To answer the specific question about why it matters to me if legislation is born out of religious practice as long as it helps my family? Number one, it's far more insidious than you make it sound. The fairly probable next president says he is a Christian first, then conservative, then American. You don't understand why that is an issue, I don't hate you but I don't respect you for your difference of opinion on it. People really are being hurt by laws that put interpretation of the Bible first, and to fall back further, I do not feel comfortable trusting someone who believes in Noah's ark over science to make those kinds of decisions.

It makes you feel good? Fine. It gives you a structure to live your life? Go for it. It helps you get through the tough parts of our absurd existence, sure thing. Leave me the **** out of it. And if you want to bring it up to me I have a right to tell you why I think it makes no sense without being called a hater, and if you push it on me or use it to leverage political power, well I do hate that action, find it frustrating and will push back.

Since we are engaged here, and I know that the kinds of questions being thrown to you about biblical inconsistencies are not going to cause much real reflection, let me ask you a more personal question. Now I can appreciate from your answer that you see a lot of the same issues I do with other people who call themselves Christian. I don't care about the shoulder shrugging "I guess" ones, but brother, how on earth, if you believe in this the way you say you do, identify yourself as one proudly, are you not fighting tooth and nail against the bastardization of your faith by the truly terrible people using the Bible for just blatantly non "Christlike" purpose big and small? Why do you point at atheist's incredulity and first feel defensive instead of double the outrage at the the TRUTH we are pointing out that you admit you see also? Not me? Not real Christians? Everyone is a hypocrite? That smacks of convenience to me. I'll readily admit I am guilty of the same vapid lethargy, but I also am not claiming any higher power guides me to do better than that.

LOL this looks like some slave **** to me. Woudn't be that hard to install a tracking device in that ***** and a kill switch. You gotta be a ****ing half wit to be ok with this and trust whatever bunch of ****ing nuthugger coloration is pumping this bull**** out. They will use this to datamine the **** outa you, so if you wanna be studied like a damn lab rat go hard you mindless ****ing dopes.



If you studied humanity you'd know not to trust any of those ****ing ****s. And by ****s I mean the ****ing hominids. You cant cay c u n t lol. Seriously I'm losing respect for this forum.

in the thread full of jesus talk this post somehow takes the cake

I hope you didn't type it from your phone which already has a tracking device (not sure wtf nuthhugger coloration is, but good chance it's in there too) so you're being studied like a damn lab rat right this moment

probably easier to fit a kill switch inside a phone than in 1mm implant too

See, you made my point. An Aussie would have said **** off you ****��

It sounds like your issues are with Jewish people and the Old Testament. Christians follow the New Testament and a new covenant with God.

I think it's sinful but we're all sinful so I don't get why they seem to get so much flack. God's grace is available to them just as it is to everyone.

That being said, I have helped countless homosexual people with their relationships and whatever other issues they were facing and currently have a couple transgendered patients. Just because I believe their behavior is a sin doesn't mean I look down on them or judge them as people.

This sounds like a "gotcha" question and lacks genuineness but yes, back when Hebrew slaves were a thing, I would support the six year thing. I'm assuming you understand that slaves back then weren't the same types of slaves we think of today. They were bond servants and not brought in chains, whipped, and beaten (at least, they weren't supposed to be beaten). It was how their society operated at that time.

The Ephesians verse can also be translated as servants, not slaves. Those verses relate to work ethic and also specify that the masters should treat their slaves (or servants) well just as God treats them well.

I'm still having a hard time reconciling your disdain and disrespect for people simply because they believe in something you don't believe in. I'm sure some give you disrespect, too, and it might be reciprocal but to imply someone is incompetent or unable to do their job well because of their beliefs seems rather bigoted.

As to the last paragraph, I'm not sure what you'd like me to do to stand up to those who don't represent Christians well. Should I have jumped in on the "lol religion" bandwagon in this thread? I try to let my actions and how I live my life and treat others be an example of living as a Christian should. But I'm human and I struggle. Just last week, I called a guy a "clown" on this forum. Not very Christian of me. I play poker only about three times a year now but I always feel a tinge of guilt about it afterwards because I wasn't being a good steward of the resources I was blessed with. So as a Christian, I still need to remove the log from my eye before I can help get the splinter out of my brother's.

But I'm mad at what has happened in the church. I'm mad that people misrepresent what Christ taught and are pushing people away from Him rather than drawing Him closer. I'm mad that people judge others by their clothing when they go to church. I'm mad that Christianity has become so involved in politics and that Christians spend more time discussing politics than the Bible. But I'm not sure what it is you suggest I do about it.

The hatred I mention earlier is evident in this thread by the intention of the thread being about microchip implants but me immediately being jumped on for saying I object for religious reasons. I was mocked, laughed at, and belittled for saying that. I was told I had mental health issues for my beliefs. That doesn't sound like hatred to you?

Short answer is no, it is not bigoted to find fault with what someone believes or assume them less compitent based on what they choose to believe, unless it truly is a mental health issue and you are discriminating against more than their ability to be trusted making decisions. I can tell that you and I disagree. It is not based in disdain when SA brings up talking snakes and I bring up the ark, even if done in an impolite way. I think you can actually understand this but are using the persecution angle to deflect getting into it.

What exactly makes the incredble aspects of the Bible off limits to question or ridicule if taken literally? If someone told you that they believed the moon was made of cheese would you have to honor that as rational or be a bigot?

As far as what you are to do about it the issues with your fellow Christians, isn't the main driver behind the religion to be Christ like? I don't think Christ would be concerning himself with what kind of decoration is used on coffee cups for his birthday. Doesn't strike me as the kind of dude who would be worried about that as much as some other things going on. Why am I the one who is saying this, not you?

Anyway I have made the points I am trying to make to answer why you are faced with this reaction. If that still boils down to hate or inexplicable disdain in your opinion I don't think I can do much more to help.

Who says/how do you decide being gay is a sin? My biblical knowledge isn't great, but I always thought that was an Old Testament kinda thing and Jesus had no problem with it.

Then why is the Old Testament still in your Bible? It wouldn't be that tough to get rid of it.

Oh, because Jesus specifically said he didn't come to turn over the old laws. They should still all be in effect.

I have an issue with anyone who bases their morality on a crazy old book. That includes practicing Jews and Muslims as well.

Jesus was mates with a prossie so I doubt he would have a problem with the gays.