Malaysia Airlines 777 Disappears: 239 on board. - Page 67 - Other Topics Forum - Discuss Pop Culture, Arts and Entertainment

It's on autopilot virtually 100% of the time from reaching cruise altitude to start down (a pilot might occasionally click off the autopilot to adjust aileron trim, but that's fairly rare).

But the reason you always want a pilot at a control seat is just on the off chance that that's the moment of an engine failure.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:36 PM

#1652

PartyGirlUK

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23,530

Let's say something happened and the plane travelled for a few hours before crashing uncontrolled in an uninhabited land area. Would this explosion with certainty register on a seismographic, heat sensor etc.?

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:36 PM

#1653

Riverman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 73,135

Pretty crazy that we have had autopilot for decades yet driverless cars are a decade away.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:38 PM

#1654

chisness

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,683

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

Any theory that this was not hijacking has to explain why the plane flew between several waypoints, imitating common routes of commercial flights in the area.

So I finally took the time to look up how ACARS works. There are articles here and here on it.

Basically ACARS is a messaging system where the messages can be sent either via VHF radio or SATCOM. It's a bit like how you can access the internet via wifi or 3G, it's the same internet just different access routes.

SATCOM is the same system that provided the pings to the Inmarsat satellite. It's hard to come up with a scenario where the plane responds to SATCOM pings from Inmarsat, but cannot transmit ACARS messages, without ACARS having been turned off by human hands. So this looks like more confirmation that this was piracy.

Saw this NYTimes article:

Quote:

WASHINGTON — The first turn to the west that diverted the missing Malaysia Airlines plane from its planned flight path from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing was carried out through a computer system that was most likely programmed by someone in the plane’s cockpit who was knowledgeable about airplane systems, according to senior American officials.

Instead of manually operating the plane’s controls, whoever altered Flight 370’s path typed seven or eight keystrokes into a computer on a knee-high pedestal between the captain and the first officer, according to officials. The Flight Management System, as the computer is known, directs the plane from point to point specified in the flight plan submitted before each flight. It is not clear whether the plane’s path was reprogrammed before or after it took off.

The fact that the turn away from Beijing was programmed into the computer has reinforced the belief of investigators — first voiced by Malaysian officials — that the plane was deliberately diverted and that foul play was involved. It has also increased their focus on the plane’s captain and first officer.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/wo...ight.html?_r=0

IMO this makes accident theories almost nil, so I think you are right as you posted

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:38 PM

#1655

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,920

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Pretty crazy that we have had autopilot for decades yet driverless cars are a decade away.

Cars are usually a lot closer together than planes.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:38 PM

#1656

W0X0F

sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphismus

Interesting theory, but yeah it's really a bit James Bond super-villain style. An since we're already there: W0X0F how realistic would it be that the culprits were hid as stowaways (with the help of ground personnel obv.) prior to the flight? E.g. 2 armed persons working with an insider in the cabin crew?

I'm really getting kind of maxed out on the conspiracy theory du jour. I would say this is very unlikely, at least in the U.S. But in Malaysia? Who knows?

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:43 PM

#1657

bigpotpoker

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,564

Quote:

Originally Posted by W0X0F

It's on autopilot virtually 100% of the time from reaching cruise altitude to start down (a pilot might occasionally click off the autopilot to adjust aileron trim, but that's fairly rare).

But the reason you always want a pilot at a control seat is just on the off chance that that's the moment of an engine failure.

am I the only one who didn't know this?

W0X0F, so what happens when you get some bad turbulence, you don't adjust anything?

Sorry for derail

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:45 PM

#1658

crdjeep

old hand

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,417

A Disappearing airplane is crazy.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:51 PM

#1659

W0X0F

sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugby

1. Where are these transponders located? Could a single event cause decompression and damage to the transponders at the same time? What about other radio systems? Are they all in the same place? Do they use any of the same components?

The transponders are located in the equipment bay which is below the cockpit in a 767 (probably the same on a 777). The control for the transponder is on the center console between the pilots. All electronics (incl radios) are in that area. Same components? I don't understand what you mean. They are all separate pieces of electronic equipment.

Quote:

2. How does autopilot work? Someone mentions something about altitude being programmed in separately?

I discussed that earlier itt. Yes, altitude can be "programmed in", but you can only go one way without pilot intervention (i.e. You could descend but couldn't "program" it to climb later.)

Quote:

I.e. Pilots manually set course for return airport, set autopilot direction, lower altitude to a safe pressure, something goes wrong, they go back onto autopilot and the autopilot takes them back up to original height where they all die.

Impossible scenario.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:52 PM

#1660

trigstarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,068

Wonder woman has an invisible plane so it's not quite as uncommon as you think.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:53 PM

#1661

CRCK

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 934

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugby

Some of that arc is pretty damn empty. The above is a population density map.

But you also must consider an elevation map:

It doesn't look like there would be many safe places to land along that arc, but I could be wrong.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:53 PM

#1662

W0X0F

sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugby

Ok, even simpler theory. Scratch that last part. Explosive decompression, pilots pass out due to the effects of the bends, autopilot just keeps them going north until they crash...

More questions.

1. I assume that a big pressure change could cause the pilots to pass out? if it was the cockpit which blew out, they could even get sucked out of the hole, Hollywood movie style.

2. Autopilot... Is this plausible? I.e. With no further instruction, the plane just keeps flying on that arc until it crashes?

This all assumes that a bunch of the info we have been given is just rubbish. I.e. The altitude changes, etc,

If the cockpit "blew out" then all bets are off. Keep speculating. It's fun, isn't it?

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:55 PM

#1663

campfirewest

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,958

This is no doubt some of Dr Evil's best work ever.

Last edited by campfirewest; 03-17-2014 at 10:24 PM.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:57 PM

#1664

Mzbourg

banned

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 6,670

Quote:

Originally Posted by chisness

I don't think it can be ruled out, but the transponder going off being occurring just after signing off with Malaysian ATC and further indication of human controlling the path means it's very unlikely imo

Yeah fair enough.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 09:58 PM

#1665

W0X0F

sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Pretty crazy that we have had autopilot for decades yet driverless cars are a decade away.

We might have had driverless cars earlier if you had controllers telling each car's occupant when another car is within 7 miles of it ( as we have with airplanes).

You're making a specious comparison. Two completely different things.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:00 PM

#1666

rugby

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 4,672

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRCK

But you also must consider an elevation map:

It doesn't look like there would be many safe places to land along that arc, but I could be wrong.

I don't think they landed safely, i think they crashed somewhere no one saw it. Perhaps one of those mountains.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:01 PM

#1667

W0X0F

sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigpotpoker

am I the only one who didn't know this?

W0X0F, so what happens when you get some bad turbulence, you don't adjust anything?

Sorry for derail

The only thing we change is the airspeed. In bad turbulence we slow to .78M or 290 KIAS, whichever is lower. We'll also look into to changing altitude for a smoother ride.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:03 PM

#1668

WhiteGoose

confirmed loose

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 13,009

So the New York Times and CNN are saying now that "some numbers or coordinates or other thing was entered into the computer on the plane" and that's what originally caused it to turn west over the gulf of Thailand.

How can they even know this data? What is the computer thing that does this?

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:05 PM

#1669

SenorKeeed

mew mew mew

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Quote:

Originally Posted by W0X0F

Yes. You can't have one pilot alone in the cockpit. The second person doesn't necessarily have to be a flight attendant. If we have a jumpseater in the cockpit, that satisfies the requirement.

So would Leonardo DiCaprio in Catch Me if You Can have sat in the pilots seat while the pilot went to the bathroom? If you haven't seen the film Leo was pretending to be a pilot on another airline who was catching a ride in the jump seat.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:06 PM

#1670

chisness

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,683

I think the 2 most feasible options now are (1) single pilot or (2) extraordinarily sophisticated pre-planned scheme by others (with or without pilot cooperation in advance). I believe (1) is much more likely and that (1) is more likely to be near the southern arc, while (2) only makes sense for the northern.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:20 PM

#1671

#Thinman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,370

feel bad for the search crews. i've completed an exhaustive search of my land and airspace and have come up empty too, so i know what they are going through.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:23 PM

#1672

golfnutt

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugby

I think given the conflicting and inaccurate information we are being given, we can place a high probability that any one "fact" we think we have, just simply isn't true.

Here is the problem too...when the truth is 'disclosed' how likely is that to be accurate? Malaysian government lied for six days saying plan was in one spot when it was actually diverted. And waiting over a week to search pilots' homes? Officials should have been there contemporaneously.

Expect more lies and cover-ups. The necessary ingredients for conspiracy theorists to make a hearty stew.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:37 PM

#1673

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfnutt

I think some (not all) of the flack the Malaysian government is getting is uncalled for. I doubt they lied about where the plane was. It's just that given the information they had that was the most reasonable place to look.

I could certainly be wrong about this but people frequently look back on a situation like this and judge people's actions with full knowledge and time to process it - two things that authorities in these situations rarely have.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:45 PM

#1674

chisness

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,683

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfnutt

I don't think they lied intentionally. The note about possibly seeing something on radar was brought up early on, but certainly made sense to search where transponder signal was lost to begin with.

I also read reports that they had searched the homes earlier and then did additional searching once foul play seemed more obvious.

Quote

03-17-2014 , 10:47 PM

#1675

W0X0F

sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteGoose

They can't know this.

I was over at my parents' house earlier today and my dad was watching Megyn Kelly on Fox News (my parents are right in the Fox demographic). I cannot stand Fox News and Megyn Kelly was just horrible in her interviews with various "experts." I wanted to throw up at some of the misstatements and spin she was putting on things. She just takes a little bit of information and then spins it into a whole scenario.

The circus surrounding this thing is so repugnant to me. The 24 hour cable news monster must love it...fresh meat! But the discourse is nauseating

Quote

Page 67 of 164

First

17 47 57 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 77 87 117

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 67 of 164

First

17 47 57 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 77 87 117

Last